7.62x54R surplus accuracy?

You see comments that individual rifles are very sensitive to ammo and I have a good example. My Finn M39 is counterbored with only fair bore and refuses to group with any quality ammo (including my handloads) but shoots quite well with the Chinese light ball surplus that I have (filthy, smelly stuff). On the other hand, I have a refurbed but genuine PU ('43 Tula) that will do 3 shots sub-inch with Chinese or Soviet surplus and also shoots every other type of modern ammo I've tried in it very well. It has a near perfect bore and perfect bedding. So, my experience has been that most Mosins will shoot surplus pretty well and a rifle in excellent condition may prove to be extremely accurate with it. For fun (cheap) shooting it can't be beat.

milsurpo
 
You see comments that individual rifles are very sensitive to ammo and I have a good example. My Finn M39 is counterbored with only fair bore and refuses to group with any quality ammo (including my handloads) but shoots quite well with the Chinese light ball surplus that I have (filthy, smelly stuff). On the other hand, I have a refurbed but genuine PU ('43 Tula) that will do 3 shots sub-inch with Chinese or Soviet surplus and also shoots every other type of modern ammo I've tried in it very well. It has a near perfect bore and perfect bedding. So, my experience has been that most Mosins will shoot surplus pretty well and a rifle in excellent condition may prove to be extremely accurate with it. For fun (cheap) shooting it can't be beat.

milsurpo

Its been my experience, over owning/shooting hundreds of different surplus firearms, that if the bores are in excellent condition and the stocks are in similar condition, or at least not cracked or broken, that the firearm will function and shoot very well, sometimes extremely well.

Its also been my experience that many shooters just can't handle the recoil generated by milsurp rifles and their steel buttplates. Not only that but many don't know how to shoot with open sights.

The people on this site, that love and shoot milsurps, are often exceptions to what I just wrote. Still, I've tried to introduce people to shooting milsurps and they've fallen into the above category.

Poor groups, because they're recoil shy and won't admit it, don't know how to use fixed, open sights etc. Their usual retort is "It's just old junk, or it doesn't fit me properly and other often heard excuses."

It's my contention that if a rifle is in VG to Exc condition, inside and out, been bedded in the manner it is supposed to be, it will shoot well with consistent ammunition.

The person shooting those firearms needs to be properly trained in their use as well. Especially how to use different types of open iron sights.

Mosins are very accurate rifles, when fed consistent ammo they like, just like any other milsurp.

It's extremely difficult to judge which ammo is best, simply because the reason ammo has been sold for surplus has either been found to be unreliable or often just reached its best before date.

We were a bit spoiled, for a long time, with the collapse of the Soviet Union. They dumped everything that went bang and they had hundreds of different storage facilities all through Eastern Europe and Asia. They never threw out anything. They dumped their old equipment all over the world to any third world nation that asked for support. Now that most of the Soviet stores have been depleted, the third world nations are opening up their warehouses of obsolete firearms/ammo and a lot of it hasn't been stored properly.


I've gone through storage facilities that boggle the imagination for size and content. One facility, just outside of Belo Horizonte' had ammunition stored, containing black powder cartridges, that still looked like they were made yesterday. That was 45 years ago, but it's indicative of what's out there.
 
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A good summary Gerald. Its been my experience that many types of MILSURPs will shoot extremely well with quality ammo assuming that bores are good, sights are tight and stock bedding is per spec. I really like the M1903 Springfields, M1917 Enfields, M1 Garands, Swede Mausers, No1 MkIII and No4 LEs and my M27 Finnish Mosin for accurate shooting with handloads.

Last week I shot 2 M1903 Springfields and 2 M1D Garands off the bench @ 100 yds and got average groups of 1.24" and 1.5" with the M1903s, and 1.28" and 1.5" with the M1Ds. The M84 scopes on the M1Ds help a lot with resolving the sight picture and that little aperture sight in the M1903 rear sight leaf is a help too. Last eye exam the eye doctor told me I had very small pupils and no cataracts, so maybe that's a bonus.;)

If people find recoil intimidating, wear a strap-on recoil pad. Sights should be smoked to eliminate shine and help refine the sight picture. You can also customize your target to help with a good sight picture. I use an 8.5x 6 inch dull black paper rectangle stapled on the back of a wallpaper panel (cheap too) with a 6 o'clock hold. It also helps to have the sun behind you to get better illumination of the target. Dry firing practice is a help; its surprising how the sight picture can jump without a proper hold and trigger squeeze. I shoot off a rifle rest and use a couple of sandbags on the arms of it to help dampen recoil.
 
^^^

Great tip on smoking the sights! I would have never thought of that. I’ve battled rear sight glare in the past on a sunny days with some of my mosins. I can’t wait to try it. Just use a butane lighter and break the flame with the sight for a second? That’s how I smoke my Lee bullet molds.
 
^^^

Great tip on smoking the sights! I would have never thought of that. I’ve battled rear sight glare in the past on a sunny days with some of my mosins. I can’t wait to try it. Just use a butane lighter and break the flame with the sight for a second? That’s how I smoke my Lee bullet molds.

felt tip black sharpie works well.
 
There are a few things that you can do to make the surplus ammo somewhat more consistent.

The first and easiest is requires a loading press and a seating die or something that will accomplish this task.

When you have the seating die in your press, a surplus cartridge in the shell head holder and the ram all the way up, screw the stem down until it just touches the bullet, then turn it in one full turn.

At this setting, run all of your cartridges through, seating the bullet about .025in deeper into the neck.

I started doing this about 35 years ago, when an avid shooter/reloader proved to me that this actually made a big difference in accuracy, especially in a rifle that was actually capable of good accuracy.

I didn't really twig onto what I was doing, until there was a thread here, again with Ganderites's involvement, about the metal of the bullet jacket and the metal of the case neck actually "welding" together, after years of contact under pressure (tension).

By seating the bullets deeper, the weld was being broken and neck tensions became more consistent.

The second method is a lot more work but is even more effective than the first.

Pull all of the bullets, dump out the powder, weighing about 20 charges and calculating and average weight for powder. Then dump all of the powder, from all of the cartridges into a container.

Check clearances in the rifle for maximum seating depth, then proceed to weigh out the charges, as per calculations, and seat the bullets to those depths.

There should be a caution here. Depending on the ammo, the necks might have to be resized. If the ammo has a tar like sealer between the bullet and neck, you can likely get away without resizing.

Some good advice there^^. I haven’t tried any real accuracy tests with surplus 7.62x54r, so this will be something for me to fiddle at when it’s -30. I actually use a few for bullet and powder for .303, but only use 70-75% of the powder. Not being one to waste, I load up maybe 10gr of unique and blast a cast 150-155 grain bullet out of the left over primed case in an old 91/30.

I have a nice Zastava bolt in x39, so I will have to give the above advice a whirl for it as well.

Thanks for posting that. :)
 
Some good advice there^^. I haven’t tried any real accuracy tests with surplus 7.62x54r, so this will be something for me to fiddle at when it’s -30. I actually use a few for bullet and powder for .303, but only use 70-75% of the powder. Not being one to waste, I load up maybe 10gr of unique and blast a cast 150-155 grain bullet out of the left over primed case in an old 91/30.

I have a nice Zastava bolt in x39, so I will have to give the above advice a whirl for it as well.

Thanks for posting that. :)

One final step could be to weigh the Bullets and group them in lots of 5. I’ve done this before as the weight variance of surplus is all over the place. Some are within .5 gr but many are +\- 5gr.
 
My Finn M39 .3095" bore shot the best group with Russian surplus for 1.25" 5 shot group with iron sights @ 100yds.
My made up scoped '42 Mosin with a Finn M27 .308" bore barrel will get 1.5 to 2.0" 5 shot groups @ 100yds with Chinese surplus. I usually load this rifle with .308 bullets as it shoots them sub MOA
 
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Great info in this thread! I've never bothered shooting milsurp 7.62x54 through my Mosin, as I typically save it for my SVT, which will shoot minute of pie plate. I think I'll give that re-seating technique a try and see how it goes. Granted, I never noticed much of a difference when I shot hand loads through it. It would still hit a German at 200m though, and that's what they were designed for.

My Mosin has a .312 bore and I use the Hornady 150 grn .312 spire points, it seems to love them, usually well under 2moa when I do my part. I'm just glad I bought a few boxes when I last saw them in store.

Half the fun in milsurps is seeing just how much accuracy you can wring out of a $150 rifle.
 
Great info in this thread! I've never bothered shooting milsurp 7.62x54 through my Mosin, as I typically save it for my SVT, which will shoot minute of pie plate. I think I'll give that re-seating technique a try and see how it goes. Granted, I never noticed much of a difference when I shot hand loads through it. It would still hit a German at 200m though, and that's what they were designed for.

My Mosin has a .312 bore and I use the Hornady 150 grn .312 spire points, it seems to love them, usually well under 2moa when I do my part. I'm just glad I bought a few boxes when I last saw them in store.

Half the fun in milsurps is seeing just how much accuracy you can wring out of a $150 rifle.

Germans?? Maybe, Finns and Swedes, Chinese, Mongolians and from 1913 or so, each other.

I just love it when I can pull a rifle out of the safe, that I purchased 50+ years ago for $10 or less, that was produced over a hundred years ago and it still shoots better than I can hold.

I fully agree with your statement.

As Mr Townsend Whelan was given the credit for first saying (Actually a James Howe quote) The most interesting rifles are the accurate rifles. Or something along those lines.

Mosins, just like any other milsurp was intended to shoot issue ammo within standardized parameters. When someone comes along and takes the time to load ammo that suits a particular rifle better, then they can show what their designs are really capable of.

Issue ammo deteriorates over time, then it's sold onto the surplus markets. Usually the reason it's sold off is because it won't shoot to the standards required of it or it has to many failures to fire. Sometimes, the nation no longer maintains or keeps the firearms that were chambered for it.

It's been my experience that the primers are usually the culprits for FTF and accuracy inconsistency, when all else is well, such as the jacket to case neck weld.
 
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I bought one a few years ago because I liked the price. Haven't shot it yet. Buddy just told me last week it is an original one, ooops. Must have been Karma for the Polish M44 unissued (as new) I sold for $350, another ooops.
 
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