Questions about loading the 577 martini

Andy said:
Shocking! Don't you know that these guns can only be used safely with blackpowder? :rolleyes:

There's a Sticky on Smokeless in Antiques, and an old CGN thread here about the 577 Snider and 577/.450 MH: https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...nd-Snider-Enfield-577-Calibers!?highlight=577

That thread is a collection of posts about the use of smokeless and the usual guys saying how unsafe that is.
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Yes I'm certain I contributed to that post :)

just living dangerous.... :)

I forget where I worked up to before backing of to 38grns but I was into the low 40's perhaps as much as 42-43grns before the pucker factor got to me.
 
You've already bought your brass but in the future you may wish to consider Martyn Robinson and X-Ring Services (US, there is an Australian company with the same name). He makes .577/450 brass out of 24 gauge brass shells. They work just fine and are cheaper. He doesn't have a web site but you can find him on the Martini group on Facebook.

Incidentally, although people generally worship at the altar of black powder when it comes to this round, I've made superbly accurate ammunition using IMR 4198 (loads of both 30gn and 38gn under a 400gn cast bullet). I do not paper patch, though I lubricate the bullets, and I use humble cotton balls for filler.
 
woodchopper said:
so some may think that I'm a heretic but here is what I am doing

405grn .458" cast bullet with gascheck

38grns IMR4227 with 2 sheets TP for filler

Magnum primers

running about 1650FPS
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I don't think or believe smokeless powder is unsafe in these rifles or just about any cartridge fed firearm, originally intended for BP. I just find that my firearms seem to perform better with BP.

On the other hand, I have a Berdan II, with an excellent bore that really likes paper patched .425 diameter, straight wall bullets over a charge of IMR3031.
 
Andy said:
You might never shoot enough rounds to see its effects, but paper-patched bullets wear a bore more quickly than do cast bullets. Paper by itself is abrasive, just take a sharp knife and run it across a stack of paper a few times, and see how much it was dulled.
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bearhunter said:
If and when I use wrapped paper patches, I usually use WAX PAPER, the type used for wrapping sandwiches. The paraffin impregnated into it makes a very decent lubrication that just about eliminates wear.
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Thanks for letting me know. I saw ppl doing paper patch using printing paper and was thinking doing the same.
Will try the wax paper instead :p
 
r.j.medals2 said:
If you are on Facebook there is a group called The Martini Henry Society Excellent , very knowledgeable and friendly group of enthusiasts and experts on Martinis .
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GunsNotPuns said:
You've already bought your brass but in the future you may wish to consider Martyn Robinson and X-Ring Services (US, there is an Australian company with the same name). He makes .577/450 brass out of 24 gauge brass shells. They work just fine and are cheaper. He doesn't have a web site but you can find him on the Martini group on Facebook.
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Thanks for the info, will be looking into it :)
 
HasegawaYamato said:
And for smokeless, I can see it will work, but how you guys determine the starting load for BP cartridges? Is there a way to calculate that or just experience? :confused:
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There are loading tables that give you that information.

Just remember, Black Powder isn't measured by weight on a scale (yes it works fine) but by volume measure and that you don't want an air space between the powder column and the base of the bullet. I use Dacron fiber, if I'm going to reduce the powder load, some folks use cardboard wads or even crumpled paper. 45/70 data is a good starting point.
 
HasegawaYamato said:
I had a Martini MK4 for a while, it is in great condition with no visible rust nor pitting, but I just cannt find any ammo for the beauty.
Based on pure luck, I found myself some martini rifle brass from Australia, so I guess I can finally be able to shoot it.
So Im basically a newbie in loading with black powder and no jacket lead bullets.
I did some research, and found some useful information:

- Many people use the lead bullets for .45-70, and paper patch it to size (.469), but some people just use custom bullets that fit the chamber (no paper patching).
- The military bullet is 480 gr and about 12 in brinell hardness.
- Many people saying both 1F or 2F powder can be used, but the 1-1/2F powder has similar size to the old military powder.
- There are different filler material that ppl use, from wool to kapok.
- Bullet lube should be used.

So I have few question:

- There are many commercial 45-70 bullets with wax filled already, and generally harder (somewhere around 18 in brinell), are they safe to use if I szied and paperpatched them? Do I need additional bullet lube as they already come with it?
- 480 gr lead bullet is diffcult to find, if I use a lighter bullet should I decrease or increase the load?
- Which powder should I use as a safe start?
- Is any recommended filler material for start?

Thanks in advance for taking the time and effort to look at my newbie questions :)
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Powder - I've used 1F and 2F, can't see a difference to speak of.

Bullets,
-paper patch works so does groove-sized medium-hard cast bullet. PP isn't rocket science but there is a learning curve. Youtube videos can give you the basics.
-pp bullets will still need lube somewhere to keep BP fouling soft.
-pp, BR-12, 45-70 bullets with grease cookies should work ok

Loading
- best resource I know for loading BP in the MH is British Militaria Forums.
 
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