Springfield Armory 1911's and the sum of their parts

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Nub8

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Springfield gets good reviews. From what I've read and seen from various YouTube reviewers (some ex-military guys, others recreational shooters..US firearms TV show clips...). No problems. Just happy owners/reviewers.

Oddly none of them have talked about the internal parts used. Are they still a combination of MIM and forged parts? I'm guessing the Ronin line (2nd from their entry level EMP line) would have a combination? I know the slide/frame are forged steel, has a polymer trigger..How about the TRP line. Their top line before their Custom guns.

Do any of you own Springfield 1911's? Did you compare them to Dan Wessons? E.g. the Specialist, Valor...? Which they say has a combination of MIM and forged parts but is well fitted/finished...considered "semi-custom"...Priced so high at around $1700-2000 CDN.
 
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SA fell down on the job. My friend bought a new SA Range Operator in 9mm two years ago. It’s a very nice gun, 1911A1 style, all the goodies, until it failed.
SA glued the slide stop/safety plunger housing on instead of pinning it like JMB designed. What kind of company does that?

Of course it failed. But it couldn’t be repaired as the plunger tube had no holes to insert a cementing pin. A worthless warranty like VinylBilt windows, my friend had to have the frame drilled to accept a pin so the tube could be mounted. NOT PERFOMANCE!
 
hatman1793 said:
... SA glued the slide stop/safety plunger housing on instead of pinning it ...
Click to expand...
I’ve heard SA has been glueing their ‘ejectors’ in place for some time now. Glueing ‘plunger tubes’ in place I wasn’t aware of. Plunger tubes are staked in place.
Did you maybe mean your friend had to replace the ejector and have the gun drilled to accept a pin. Ejectors aren’t even pinned presently, they’re just fit in place with the two legs.
My apologies, maybe I’m so out of the loop and thinking this wouldn’t be a smart thing to do with a plunger tube.
 
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SAs TRPs have many MIM parts. Yet it’s a National Match gun. So are their Mil-Specs, or were in early ‘90s. Including the hammer, slide stop, extractor, ejector, thumb safety, plunger tube, back strap, lots of MIM parts.
I don’t believe there’s anything wrong with MIM parts and hold up quite well. It’s been argued that MIM parts are even better than tool steel. I think when people oppose new technology within the firearms industry, it has more to do with the nostalgia of parts being tool steel. Particularly with 1911s.

Most all 1911 offerings are now built with MIM parts.
 
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I've had two Springfields that had the plunger tube come loose. A GI model and a Mil Spec (non NM). I bought a staking tool and reset them, no trouble since then. I know those are both entry level models, but two of my favorites. Haven't had that problem with any of the other Springfields I've owned.
 
I had one many years ago in 45. Sent it to RK to have the trigger done and a fibre front sight installed. The gun ran problem free in IPSC for several years. I did notice that the accuracy was lacking, most likely due to a loose barrel to bushing fit as well as at the hood. Never had any issues with the plunger tube or other MIM parts.
 
Another CDN had a similar problem with his new 2020 Beretta 92X Performance. There wasn't a spot for the plunger. Needed to drill into the frame. They took care of that and he's been fine.

Glueing in parts??? News to me. I wouldn't think that would hold parts in place in a gun where tiny explosions happen every time we pull the trigger.

Yet, oddly many American owners sound happy. Don't mention problems with glued parts and missing holes that should have been drilled in. One Vegas cop (not sure if he retired...looks young enough not to have yet) had his TRP he said for 16 years. No problems at all. Is SA sending up their "b-stock"? Selling their "good guns' to Americans?

It's odd. It's like the QA departments in many gun companies are slipping. Missing things they shouldn't. E.g. Colt and their first batch of Pythons. Cylinder lockup. On a gun fans have been asking for a long time. You'd think they would have made sure every gun was flawless. That Beretta 92x Perf with the same problem. Even Les Baer custom guns..slide wouldn't cycle for some one who bought 2 of them...one was a Premier 2 the other Monolith Comacnche...YouTuber channel Beretta1911USA. One is a LEO...the other his son...He had to send his Les B back 2x...they missed the problem after claiming to fix it the first time...not sure what happened after...this was last year..had to wait months to get their guns back the first time..paid for shipping...didn't like that...
 
SAs glueing the ejector in place was a request to fulfil an FBI contract years ago as I recall and continued glueing them in future productions.
The reason was so agents could replace it if needed in the field. I don’t understand the reasoning as if it’s glued in, how do you get the legs out of the holes if it breaks?
In a 1911, the slide rides over the ejector and it can’t come out to begin with unless both legs shear off.

Perhaps the plunger tube I question in a previous post was glued in place as well as staked after becoming loose somewhat. To stake a plunger tube one needs a plunger staking tool to stake it properly from the inside. Using glue is not the way to do things. Cause more aggravation when repairs are needed and glue doesn’t hold #### in a gun as you state.
 
I have a Springfield Mil spec (IMBEL frame) and Sig 1911 XO, both are around ~2010 vintage, and I would say both would be considered entry level options from these manufacturers with the Sig MSRP being a bit higher. In my experience, the SIG has nicer machining/finish and is a bit tighter fitting overall. Both are equally accurate, but the SIG has been a little more reliable in my experience. I've put around 4000 rounds through my Mil-spec and the only thing it "needed" was a new recoil spring, so I don't particularly see any issue with the factory MIM parts.
 
I've worked on two for action/trigger jobs and the fit and finish was worse than the seraphim I was working on at the same time. Also worse than my STIs but not to surprising there.

The SA had horrible machining/tool marks left everywhere, sharp edges a day generally rough anywhere you wouldn't see when fully assembled
 
Clearly SA 1911's don't have a good rep here in the great white north. Mostly negative experiences with one good (at least based on comments on this thread).

Brit784...are you a gunsmith? Have you worked on any SA's from their Custom line?

Just seems American owners are happier with their SA's...with their copies...e.g. a Vegas cop who's had his TRP for over 16 years no problems...Shrug.. Yes just one case heh...Not sure iirc he used it as his duty gun...
 
nub8 said:
springfield gets good reviews. From what i've read and seen from various youtube reviewers (some ex-military guys, others recreational shooters..us firearms tv show clips...). No problems. Just happy owners/reviewers.

Oddly none of them have talked about the internal parts used. Are they still a combination of mim and forged parts? I'm guessing the ronin line (2nd from their entry level emp line) would have a combination? I know the slide/frame are forged steel, has a polymer trigger..how about the trp line. Their top line before their custom guns.

Do any of you own springfield 1911's? Did you compare them to dan wessons? E.g. The specialist, valor...? Which they say has a combination of mim and forged parts but is well fitted/finished...considered "semi-custom"...priced so high at around $1700-2000 cdn.
Click to expand...

out of curiosity whuch parts are MIM and forged in the specialist?
 
Nub8 said:
Clearly SA 1911's don't have a good rep here in the great white north. Mostly negative experiences with one good (at least based on comments on this thread).

Brit784...are you a gunsmith? Have you worked on any SA's from their Custom line?

Just seems American owners are happier with their SA's...with their copies...e.g. a Vegas cop who's had his TRP for over 16 years no problems...Shrug.. Yes just one case heh...Not sure iirc he used it as his duty gun...
Click to expand...

No I'm not a gun Smith, but learned 1911 work from one and have worked many of my own and friends who trust me. If I can't do it I tell them. Same with CZs

I have not seen any SA custom lines, I'd assume they are better fit and finish though.
 
I'm new to 1911s and this is a fascinating conversation to me. I'm looking to build a 1911 completely from the ground up and it appears that this would be a good idea given that you can choose exactly what parts you're getting. That being said, I have a Para Ordnance 1911 (built back when it was still a Canadian company) that I recently got at a great price and I'm hoping that it won't have any issues. Previous owner used it as a competition gun and I haven't heard any complaints from him.
 
The folks who don't like "glued on" parts are going to be awfully upset when they find out that 2/3 rds of their car and truck body parts are "glued on" - panel bonding adhesive is stronger than the metal it bonds. If you want a 1911 with no MIM parts, you don't have much choice - I mean you can get a Springfield Pro, a Les Baer, Ed Brown, or if you don't have $4K burning a hole in your pocket a Norinco.
 
hatman1793 said:
SA fell down on the job. My friend bought a new SA Range Operator in 9mm two years ago. It’s a very nice gun, 1911A1 style, all the goodies, until it failed.
SA glued the slide stop/safety plunger housing on instead of pinning it like JMB designed. What kind of company does that?

Of course it failed. But it couldn’t be repaired as the plunger tube had no holes to insert a cementing pin. A worthless warranty like VinylBilt windows, my friend had to have the frame drilled to accept a pin so the tube could be mounted. NOT PERFOMANCE!
Click to expand...

Do you (or any one else) know if SA only did that with their RO? Was that something a disgruntled employee did on a few copies? Sounds like a joke. You'd think SA or any company would know better than to glue any gun parts in.

The TRP. Does anyone know if it uses any MIM parts? How does it compare with the DW 1911's? Being made with no cast/MIM parts. Should be not even consider the SA Custom guns? Let lone the TRP.
 
I have a Springfield 1911A1 that I picked up probably eight or so years ago and love it. I’ve had no issues in the 1000 or so rounds I’ve put through it, though admittedly it doesn’t get shot too much. Fit and finish is very nice and it’s more accurate than I am.
 
medvedqc said:
out of curiosity whuch parts are MIM and forged in the specialist?
Click to expand...

There are ALLEGEDLY NO MIM parts on a DW. That's their selling point. Maybe the only "factory" gun with no MIM parts that shoots like a full-custom gun. Tight tolerances. With some time spent on fit and finishing. DW guns are considered "semi-custom".

I was told Sig have a "few MIM parts (hammer and sear, mag release button)..not sue how correct that is.

Springfields. As I said some guys that commented here had problems with theirs or a friend's SA had issues. Gluing in of parts...which sounded a bit too hard to believe. Makes no sense to me...why ANY firearms company would glue in parts knowing where they're putting it...in a device that has small "explosions".

All the reviews I've seen in YouTube videos and read about...for the TRP have been good. One Vegas cop had his for over 16 years. No issues. Everyone that's reviewed a TRP has had nothing but good things to say. I'm still considering one. But need more information. As well as I'd like to hear from guys who've bought SA Custom guns e.g. Distinguished Classic. Which don't seem to be sold in Canada...and might need to be special ordered.

And...ArtyMan likes his 8+ year old SA...so that's another positive comment..so far just 2 satisfied owners...

Maybe the "glued" 1911's were "b-stock"?? used guns SA tried to pawn off on certain CDN's?? Makes no sense at all...
 
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