SHTF : Why AR's ?

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Armedsask said:
There was a guy on AR15 who went through Argentina's economic crash. His little right up is THE guide to surviving a realistic SHTF scenario. Why? Because he did.

One of his big points was that all the guys talking about AR15's being the go to gun are planning for the wrong thing. As he said, "You're not just going to wake up one day and everything has changed." It will be gradual. Would you be able to go to work now with a rifle on your back? Basically, a handgun is a must in the city because it is concealable. A rifle is for protecting your home.

That being said, if we are talking the mother of all SHTF, then the AR15 is a good choice because it is compatible with what the military is using. Easier to scavenge bodies for ammo and parts if you are using the same rifle. Plus the odd raid on supply convoys can be helpful. :evil:
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any chance you could find a link to his post on it?
 
VanIsle said:
Are you serious? How many SKS malfunctions do you hear of? I've had at least 6 of them and probably shot over 5,000 rnds and never had a single problem. They are easy as crap to work on, have a swell bayonette for those crawling zombies and go bang every time you pull the trigger. Plus ammo is cheap cheap cheap!!
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1st one I ever bought didnt work from factory (yugo) because of a part whose dimensions were slightly off (trigger bar or sear cant recall)...it was enough to make the rifle not work and to make me lose my interest in the sks altogether.

This would be a sweet back-up shtf gun:
1775hke.jpg
 
what about something like a USC? ammo is smaller thus lighter, less recoil and still good to 100 yards(accuracy at least, im not sure about stopping power).
 
For me, in a SHTF scenario, an AR is a logical choice. It may not be for everyone, but it's a good choice for me.

I've put a lot of rounds through the AR platform, and the combination of reliability, lethality, and familiarity means that it's my go-to-gun. If social order collapses, then I'm going to want the weapon that I feel that I'm most likely to score many hits with in a short period of time. When I pick up an AR, I don't have to think about what my fingers are doing...it's as natural as my hands moving the steering wheel of my truck when I decide to turn left. My mind can concentrate on the sight picture...on moving constructively...on communicating effectively...on what my next move will be.

Even without that issue, pound for pound, the AR is a contender. The ammo is available almost anywhere (including Ukranian tire), it's a solid and proven design, and you can get it in any flavour you want. That last portion means that you can tailor it for what you feel is the most likely mix of scenarios. Folks living in open, rural areas can choose between a 16 and a 20. Guys in more urban settings (or thick woods) can choose between 16 or 14.5 or even 11.5 models.

Ask the guys who are in a SHTF situation every day (the sandbox). Not the enlisted ones, the PMC's that have some choice in what they carry. Ask them why.

We can argue until we're blue in the face about a tactical shotgun vs. a pistol vs. an assault rifle vs. a battle rifle vs. a combination of throwing knives and a kukri vs. a wiffle ball bat. If we agree that an assault rifle is a viable choice, then the AR is very definitely worth looking at.
 
Because zombies can be killed easily with a .223 head shot and you can carry 30 in your mag if SHTF as opposed to 20 rounds in your FAL:)
 
I"d like to know where this urban legend about the AK being super reliable came from. From what I've experienced on both ends of the AK FOW in various crapholes of this earth I have seen it fail to fire, jam, blow up, and a multitude of other things that made it go click instead of bang, just like any other weapons system out there.
The only reason it is used by various terrorists, revolutionaries and freedom fighters is that during the Cold War millions of these things were dumped on the market or given away by the USSR, it's cheap that's all.
Face it the thing has poor accuracy, poor ergonomics and until very recently was not able to accept any ancillary devices that improved any of it's shortcomings.
 
Well,

Here's a couple of "worst case" scenarios that I've personally lived through:

Hurricane Juan
White Juan (38" of snow in a couple of days.)

In neither of those situations have I faced the need to bring out a firearm and carry it to defend myself or my family.

We were without power in both cases for a period of time. I have since moved further out of town, and bought a generator.

Having lived through both those situations, so far, up north here, there's enough good people around that they bring the best out in people, not the worst.

Let's suppose that there was some situation though, where civil unrest spreads to my area, and for whatever reason, I'm not recalled to duty to assist in quelling it....

My choice would depend on the situation faced. I mean, really if I was faced with a situation where there is armed insurrection, and the scope of the mob activities is somehow spreading out to my town, well, there'd be a place for a long-gun, most likely an AR, and since I'm rather handy with a standard 20" gun, that'd be what I'd grab. Having 50,000+ rounds out through the platform, I'm extremely comfortable with it's capabilities, and limitations.

In most other situations, I'd be along the thinking along the lines of the gentleman from Argentina (I've read the thread/tale) and concur that a handgun would be the more reasonable daily carry option.

Carrying a handgun has the convenience that you're armed, but not overtly. If an overt display is required, you can clear the holster in a few moments, and present. If you're decent with a handgun, (I'm not bad, but not an expert) you can be dangerous to an attacker out to a range of at least 50 meters.

That's enough to deal with pretty much any localized threat.

NS
 
esquif said:
this texte is HIGLY criticized and a lot of pepole have VERY strong douts about it. Most pepole think it was writen by an american survivalist type to promote his own ideas about survival and SHTF
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Even if it is fictional, who doesn't enjoy a good story? :D I want to read it too.
 
If I recall correctly, the Argentinian character said that he OCCASIONALLY carried a FAL Para model with folder stock so he could keep it somewhat concealed. However, he found the most handy firearm to be a .22LR pistol. Small, light, cheap and effective. He also said that having a big massive battle rifle was stupid because when people try to mug you they don't come running at you from 300 yards waving a flag, and screaming some sort of rebel yell. He said that's why you need something small and light so you can get to it in a hurry when you're bushwhacked.

Personally, if I had to choose, I'd take my short AR15 over my VZ58 in a worst case scenario. It's more comfortable and it's much more versatile for mounting options. Granted, I personally think the pistol is the way to go for everyday defensive situations.
 
There are many possible SHTF scenarios, so it would be wise to have several options available.
The AR would be a good choice, but with anemic 5 rd mags, I am better off carting around my 12 ga, which holds 7rd in each mag. :mad: frickin' liberal politicians.
 
Why the AR? its controllable, ergonomic, light weight, extremely reliable, ammunition and accessories are easy to come by, fits well with armour with the collapsing stock, and you can seperate the upper from the lower to store it compactly if need be.

I find majority of the people slagging the M16 FOW havent got any first hand experience with the weapon. (derb I had a buddy who had a friend of a friend whos uncles girlfriends father had an M16 that jammed on him and he had to put 30 rounds into a guy to take him down:jerkit:)

Id trust the M16 FOW before any pos SKS, VZ or M14 (and yes I own one of each of those).
 
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ian_in_vic said:
I would think your SHTF gun/s would be the one/s you had the most ammunition for.
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.223 followed by 9mm

cancer said:
If I recall correctly, the Argentinian character said that he OCCASIONALLY carried a FAL Para model with folder stock so he could keep it somewhat concealed. However, he found the most handy firearm to be a .22LR pistol. Small, light, cheap and effective. He also said that having a big massive battle rifle was stupid because when people try to mug you they don't come running at you from 300 yards waving a flag, and screaming some sort of rebel yell. He said that's why you need something small and light so you can get to it in a hurry when you're bushwhacked.

Personally, if I had to choose, I'd take my short AR15 over my VZ58 in a worst case scenario. It's more comfortable and it's much more versatile for mounting options. Granted, I personally think the pistol is the way to go for everyday defensive situations.
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it doesnt seem to me that it would be *necessary* to carry a firearm until the s REALLY htf. in this case i would probably go from carrying nothing, to having the ar and a pistol. But like i said, i dont think the scenario is really going to happen. Which is why i mention zombies. Sure it *could* happen, ala Umbrella corp virus, or something... but i am not banking on it.

Social break down is a real possability, but i hope my exposure to that to be very brief. --> goto country

My feelings are this; AS soon as (if not before) it comes to the point where i feel the need to carry firearms of any kind, i will be heading into the country. In that case, i want the firearms i
a. can rely on going bang, and if not i can go to IA and try again, very quick. (or switch to sidearm)
b. am comfortable using (i havent handled a firearm that the controls feel more natural than the ar, but i havent handled that many firearms either) c. have a sufficient supply of ammo for.

my problem with using the 870 for shtf is 2fold, its huge (in comparison), and it doesnt hold sufficient number of rounds. Not that i think it will come to taking down a lot of baddies, but i am not comfortable running out of ammo and i cant count on placing shots where i want for certain under the stress that is sure to come of the situation.

i keep saying country. i expect i will have to do some form of hunting when this all happens. It wont be happening with a 9mm handgun. And i dont think a hunting or sniper type rifle will be much use in a shtf type scenario. The ar is a 'good enough' balance of everything i will want to do. Who knows, hard to argue 'what if' scenarios i have no real world experiance with.
 
Lets clear of some misconceptions here.

1. When the need arises to carry a rifle/shotgun to defend yourself or your family. Who gives a f**k if its "restricted" or "concealed". The goal is self defense, not obeying the law. Presenting a hard target usually gets the point across. If not, then game on.

2. Aside from your everyday natural disaster. There will be NO LAW ENFORCEMENT presence. LEO's have families too. You think they'll abandon theirs to defend yours??? Get a grip.

3.Five round magazine capacity issues?? Sure, if you enjoy a challenge. Think for yourself...

4. Your pistol should always compliment your rifle, not the other way around. There are advantages to remaining concealed as well. Prior to a complete social break down a concealed handgun will be the heat.

I won't argue which rifle is better, its a personal choice. The final exam will reveal who studied and who didn't. Bottom line is that which ever system you choose. You better be good with it and you better have plenty of ammo.

There are as many ups as there are downs to running an AR. Personally I see the benefits outweighing the negatives.

Easy/ergonomic to shoot
Low recoil
Accurate
RELIABLE, contrary to the "Ak's can be dropped in the mud and still fire" crowd.
Large magazine capacity
Light weight ammo= you can carry more
Access to parts, ammo, even complete rifles via Mil and LE.


The trick with SHTF is two fold. How severe is it, and how long will it last? If you don't know how severe the situation is i.e. how much/little civilized behavior remains. You cannot effectively react to it. A severe snow storm would not be cause to break out your AR and full battle rattle to stand guard. An attack on your cities water supply creating severe strain on the system, might warrant just a little bit more awareness and security.

If the above snow storm turned out to be say, a nuclear winter(a bit extreme) you might want to think about getting a head start on the rest of the population. If the attack on the water system turns out to be one of many attacks across the nation and there's mass panic and looting. Again, you might want to ramp up your plan and preps.

Something like NOLA is a dicey situation. Without a doubt, you defend yourself and your family no matter what. You can't worry about the legal aspect unless you survive the encounter. On the other hand, provoking or openly engaging any threat without first attempting to hide or retreat could very well land you in that legal bind that you otherwise could have avoided.

If the situation appears to be grave and causing panic. Arm yourself, openly if necessary. If the situation appears or shows good reason to believe that it won't end in the near future(I'd say within 30-60 days). All bets are off, you're on your own..


Remember "The veneer of society is only three meals deep..."
TDC
 
Time for a big reality check here guys.

I think all of you need to get to the video store while the power is still on and rent "Red Dawn". This is the definitive portrayal of how to survive an invasion and occupation by a hostile enemy force. :D

I am especially impressed how the insurgents (Patrick Swayze, et al) on horseback can out run Russian helicopter gunships. These guys have the moves down! :runaway:
 
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