Bill C-21 and action shooting sports

[Galt]

We have some gentlemen in our IDPA club that are around the same age as you. They have little interest in vigorous 'competition', either, but they do enjoy the camaradarie and social aspect of getting together for a match, and they absolutely do enjoy the opportunity to actually shoot their handguns alongside like-minded folks.

Gun control measures are better able to pick off firearms and their owners when they are solitary actors, not well-connected to like-minded persons and groups, and when they don't share a common endeavour, only one example of which is the action shooting sports. Organization is always an advantage.

we belong to clubs.. that is our sport.. action-oriented groups is not going to help us , other than point that unless you compete you shouldn't own a gun.
I am not a fan of having to be in a special group to enjoy what I want and spandex makes my pits and balls sweat

 

[CV32]

we belong to clubs.. that is our sport.. action-oriented groups is not going to help us , other than point that unless you compete you shouldn't own a gun. I am not a fan of having to be in a special group to enjoy what I want and spandex makes my pits and balls sweat

No one is saying you have to be a member of an action shooting club. Nor would anyone at an action shooting club suggest that you can't or should not own a firearm unless you participate in such a sport. That is absurd. (But maybe take note that this thread is in an action shooting subforum.)

The members of action shooting clubs are themselves typically members of a larger gun club. Those larger gun clubs are typically made up of individuals who each have a common interest in firearms, generally, but each may have a more specific interest in a certain sport or class of firearms.

There are trap, sporting clays and skeet shooters whose interest in shotgun sports generally outweigh their interest in handguns. There are IDPA/IPSC/3GN etc shooters whose interest in action shooting sports generally outweigh their interest in shotguns. There are precision rifle shooters whose interest in shotguns and handguns is outweighed by their interest in rifles. And so one. There can be overlap between them as well.

Each of the participants in those firearms sports have a special interest in making sure their sport survives and continues. No one is suggesting that it must come at the cost of anyone else. I don't know how or where you would have come to that conclusion, but it is mistaken.

If your level of organization is that you are a gun club member, that is fine. That doesn't mean you must disparage folks who are also organized at other levels.

 

[Galt]

No one is saying you have to be a member of an action shooting club. Nor would anyone at an action shooting club suggest that you can't or should not own a firearm unless you participate in such a sport. That is absurd. (But maybe take note that this thread is in an action shooting subforum.)

The members of action shooting clubs are themselves typically members of a larger gun club. Those larger gun clubs are typically made up of individuals who each have a common interest in firearms, generally, but each may have a more specific interest in a certain sport or class of firearms.

There are trap, sporting clays and skeet shooters whose interest in shotgun sports generally outweigh their interest in handguns. There are IDPA/IPSC/3GN etc shooters whose interest in action shooting sports generally outweigh their interest in shotguns. There are precision rifle shooters whose interest in shotguns and handguns is outweighed by their interest in rifles. And so one. There can be overlap between them as well.

Each of the participants in those firearms sports have a special interest in making sure their sport survives and continues. No one is suggesting that it must come at the cost of anyone else. I don't know how or where you would have come to that conclusion, but it is mistaken.

If your level of organization is that you are a gun club member, that is fine. That doesn't mean you must disparage folks who are also organized at other levels.

Point is stop trying to give liberals ideas of what is a legitimate sporting purpose ....
I keep hearing " join blah blah " and that will be the solution...
Every damn group has their own interest and be damn anyone else it seems and that's what many are saying about action.. " save our sport " and eff anyone else.. just like happened in the 90s

 

[CV32]

Point is stop trying to give liberals ideas of what is a legitimate sporting purpose .... I keep hearing " join blah blah " and that will be the solution... Every damn group has their own interest and be damn anyone else it seems and that's what many are saying about action.. " save our sport " and eff anyone else.. just like happened in the 90s

That's not a very good point. Unfortunately the term "sporting purpose" is well ingrained into the firearms legislation already, long before C-21.

My own point is that all of the currently enjoyed sporting purposes for firearms - including the action shooting sports, which I understand you don't enjoy, and that's fine - are perfectly legitimate, and ought to be defended, whether you personally engage in them or not. Do you disagree with that?

 

[Galt]

That's not a very good point. Unfortunately the term "sporting purpose" is well ingrained into the firearms legislation already, long before C-21.

My own point is that all of the currently enjoyed sporting purposes for firearms - including the action shooting sports, which I understand you don't enjoy, and that's fine - are perfectly legitimate, and ought to be defended, whether you personally engage in them or not. Do you disagree with that?

I do enjoy and partake on action shooting.. just not in this country .. prefer shooting where they treat you like adults south of the St Lawrence..

I am not saying action isn't legitimate.. there are threads all over saying that we should all move under that umbrella to keep our guns..

 

[CV32]

I do enjoy and partake on action shooting.. just not in this country .. prefer shooting where they treat you like adults south of the St Lawrence.. I am not saying action isn't legitimate.. there are threads all over saying that we should all move under that umbrella to keep our guns..

We welcome everyone at our matches, but I certainly wouldn't suggest that it is necessary, not in this thread or anywhere else.

 

[.30/06 FTW]

we belong to clubs.. that is our sport.. action-oriented groups is not going to help us , other than point that unless you compete you shouldn't own a gun.
I am not a fan of having to be in a special group to enjoy what I want and spandex makes my pits and balls sweat

You shouldn’t have to but at the same time action shooting groups most DEFINITELY help us. Action shooting groups help attract new people and help the sport grow. Often the people who action shoot are the most politically active and involved with their clubs.

 

[VictoriousSecret]

This "prescribed sporting competition" exception clause is complete BS to say the least.

If a municipal decides to exercise this ban, how does one get into the "prescribed sporting competition" if one can't even legally obtain, possess, store, and transport in that municipal? Presumably any gun stores within that municipal would have been out of business once the ban has been established.

For those who want to join IPSC, for example. Do people then need paper work from IPSC that they will be attending an up and coming Black Badge course? It's a chicken and egg paradox. Good luck with tracking down a Black Badge course if the first place.

For the existing "prescribed sporting competition" shooters, on top of the RPAL and the proof of ownership, they will need another documentation to proof they are exempted?

And who gets to decide what's a "prescribed sporting competition" anyway?

 

[CV32]

This "prescribed sporting competition" exception clause is complete BS to say the least. If a municipal decides to exercise this ban, how does one get into the "prescribed sporting competition" if one can't even legally obtain, possess, store, and transport in that municipal? Presumably any gun stores within that municipal would have been out of business once the ban has been established. For those who want to join IPSC, for example. Do people then need paper work from IPSC that they will be attending an up and coming Black Badge course? It's a chicken and egg paradox. Good luck with tracking down a Black Badge course if the first place. For the existing "prescribed sporting competition" shooters, on top of the RPAL and the proof of ownership, they will need another documentation to proof they are exempted?
And who gets to decide what's a "prescribed sporting competition" anyway?

All good questions.

 

[Galt]

This "prescribed sporting competition" exception clause is complete BS to say the least.

If a municipal decides to exercise this ban, how does one get into the "prescribed sporting competition" if one can't even legally obtain, possess, store, and transport in that municipal? Presumably any gun stores within that municipal would have been out of business once the ban has been established.

For those who want to join IPSC, for example. Do people then need paper work from IPSC that they will be attending an up and coming Black Badge course? It's a chicken and egg paradox. Good luck with tracking down a Black Badge course if the first place.

For the existing "prescribed sporting competition" shooters, on top of the RPAL and the proof of ownership, they will need another documentation to proof they are exempted?

And who gets to decide what's a "prescribed sporting competition" anyway?

this is exactly the point I was making

 

[CV32]

You shouldn’t have to but at the same time action shooting groups most DEFINITELY help us. Action shooting groups help attract new people and help the sport grow. Often the people who action shoot are the most politically active and involved with their clubs.

At my club (with roughly 1,000 members) the action shooting folks are, sadly, the ONLY segment of the membership actively involved and participating in fighting gun control.

 

[SLToronto]

the only "prescribed shooting competitions" will be the ones included in Olympics (e.g., rimfire pistol, biathlon, ...)

so if you are not a member of Kanukistan's Olympics team - you are not getting that exemption for ONE handgun (note - it mentioned in SINGULAR!) which you will be training with ...

they want softly "deport" all licensed firearms owners from the banning cities/municipalities

plus, read with attention ... storage allowed only at a "licensed business" = centralized storage

 

[CV32]

the only "prescribed shooting competitions" will be the ones included in Olympics (e.g., rimfire pistol, biathlon, ...) so if you are not a member of Kanukistan's Olympics team - you are not getting that exemption for ONE handgun (note - it mentioned in SINGULAR!) which you will be training with ...

I have a sneaking suspicion that the Lieberal intent is that SOR/98-465 would be the focus of the phrase "prescribed sporting competition" (not "prescribed shooting competition") but note that this regulation speaks to certain "prescribed handguns" (it contains a list) rather than a list of acceptable competitions.

The reference to competition (again, undefined, but using restricted or prohibited firearms) also remains in the context of transport and use in section 19 of the Firearms Act. (With amendments to 19(1.1) and 19(2) found in sect 18 of C-21.)

 

[Sqr]

This "prescribed sporting competition" exception clause is complete BS to say the least.

If a municipal decides to exercise this ban, how does one get into the "prescribed sporting competition" if one can't even legally obtain, possess, store, and transport in that municipal? Presumably any gun stores within that municipal would have been out of business once the ban has been established.

For those who want to join IPSC, for example. Do people then need paper work from IPSC that they will be attending an up and coming Black Badge course? It's a chicken and egg paradox. Good luck with tracking down a Black Badge course if the first place.

For the existing "prescribed sporting competition" shooters, on top of the RPAL and the proof of ownership, they will need another documentation to proof they are exempted?

And who gets to decide what's a "prescribed sporting competition" anyway?

Like some European citizens do by living in one country while store and train in another country.

 

[Canuck44]

It will depend on who is in power and the sequence of timing. If Trudeau ignores the action shooting sports the Conservatives could add write them in when they replace the Liberal's. This would result in the whining Liberals and the anti-gun crowd claiming "Blood will run in the Streets"- remember the claims that occurred when the Long Gun Registry was tossed.

Now if the Conservatives were to include the action shooting sports at the outset the Liberals get a free pass to remove them when they get back in powder.

Either of the above scenarios are just a dance. Nobody, other than the few of us who shoot firearms, cares either way. The subject of forearms is just a political football. Either party can score point once, not twice. You don't here the Liberals bringing back the Long Gun Registry or claims of blood running in the streets. The latter never happened. Subject closed.

When the dust settles on C71 the Liberals will claim they have taken action to end gang warfare. Their fans will all cheer. Time will pass, Gang violence will continue. The Conservatives will get in and re-write the Firearms Act, reverse the OIC and the cries will go out by the anti gun crowd and life will will go on under the new order. The Liberals will have scored all the points they could with their actions, so to, the Conservatives and both bases will be happy. There will be no reason for the Liberals to reverse, again, the laws.

The wrench in all of this is if the Liberals win a majority in the next election. Four more years of Trudeau and we will have far more problems to deal with in our lives than worrying about gun ownership. Just saying

Take Care

Bob

 

[CV32]

Four more years of Trudeau and we will have far more problems to deal with in our lives than worrying about gun ownership.

We're already there.

 

[Garand]

At 67 I do not want to compete, like the majority, just informal target shooting. These things are not nuclear bombs, just common handguns. Have we reached the tipping point in this country where massive demographic change has altered our politics forever? Quite possibly.

At ages 65 both my wife and I (during normal years) compete in 20+ Cowboy Actions a year. While the firearms that I own for that disciple have not been attacked yet, I accept the fact that it is only a matter of time. Like many others, I own firearms that fall under the ban and do not want to accept any financial loss.

 

[Canuck44]

Maybe it is time we let Trudeau & Co the Baby Boomers are not to be dismissed just yet. Worked back in the 50s & 60's it sure as hell will work now.

Take Care

Bob

 

[hsatimmy]

I want them to explain how a ban has helped murder, drug use (especially in prison), how it helped protect people from getting abortions (uh oh liberal talking points)

How it's prevented terrorism, prevented smuggling or ### traffic in our country.


I'll wait

 

[Garand]

I want them to explain how a ban has helped murder, drug use (especially in prison), how it helped protect people from getting abortions (uh oh liberal talking points)

How it's prevented terrorism, prevented smuggling or ### traffic in our country.


I'll wait

You will wait a long time if you expect a Liberal to tell you the truth!