Questions on obtaining a deep sheen on a gunstock

Lepages ‘wood filler’ is better thought of as goop to fill nail holes, rather than to fill tiny open grain pores. It might work if thinned enough - maybe - but it isn’t the best product to fill in the grain. Look for products that say they fill pores and grain, rather than holes or cracks and take nails well.

Like bondo vs glazing putty. :)

Glazing putty...havent heard that term in 20 years. That crap was the poorest excuse for any man made product in the history of autobody. It was the amazing lacquer based filler that would keep shrinking 50 years later.
 
Glazing putty...havent heard that term in 20 years. That crap was the poorest excuse for any man made product in the history of autobody. It was the amazing lacquer based filler that would keep shrinking 50 years later.
lol! I never used it myself. Only high build primers with the few cars I painted. The point is you wouldn't use a thick, almost sandy product, to fill tiny holes. That's what some basic wood fillers are.
 
lol! I never used it myself. Only high build primers with the few cars I painted. The point is you wouldn't use a thick, almost sandy product, to fill tiny holes. That's what some basic wood fillers are.

I guess not. I assumed (since it came in a tube) that it was like the Minwax stuff that is sold here. It works very well, and it's what I use.

It's a bit sandy, now that I think of it, but it fills tiny holes just fine.
 
It's interesting to see it in the context of the article.

He's about 32:2:1 in oil:turpentine:wax

I suspect what you've got there is a thickened linseed oil, that will cure to a bit softer finish than straight BLO. I might have thought the turpentine would cancel the wax for "thickening," but I think a lot of the turpentine will be gone after "simmering" for 10 minutes according to his recipe.

He talks about filling grain with it (and I note he mentions "red oil" as well.) Do you think this might be the answer to your grain filling challenge?
 
It's interesting to see it in the context of the article.

He's about 32:2:1 in oil:turpentine:wax

I suspect what you've got there is a thickened linseed oil, that will cure to a bit softer finish than straight BLO. I might have thought the turpentine would cancel the wax for "thickening," but I think a lot of the turpentine will be gone after "simmering" for 10 minutes according to his recipe.

He talks about filling grain with it (and I note he mentions "red oil" as well.) Do you think this might be the answer to your grain filling challenge?

I dont think that introducing a wax to the stock ,using it as a filler, at this point would be a good idea. Filling the pores with wax to me would be akin to filling pinholes in autobody work with a 2 part putty but not adding any hardner to it. While the article is interesting to me that finish would be used for a double gun that was used exclusively on a pheasant hunt under very controlled conditions by a pipe smoking old guy wearing some sort of english style hat. ( sorry to all the old guys in here that hunt pheasants in old style english hats!!)

So..what that being said I am gonna contact a local fella,take the stock to him and see what he might have for a filler.He has done lots of cabinet work and I have helped with a couple of car resto"s he has been doing so it evens it out. Now since I am only 2 coats in on the stock I think that since I sanded some more walnut boards yesterday I am going to take a sample board,apply 2 coats of my red oil,let dry and try the wet sand/slurry technique using my red oil as a lube. If it doesnt work at least its on the sample board..so nothing lost but a little time. If it does work out ok then I will take and do the stock and then start applying straight tung oil to it and carry on. At the same time if he happens to have some wood filler I will take another board,do my 2 coats,let dry for a couple of days and try the wood filler technique. I hate to experiment on the stock when I have walnut boards sitting here that are used for experimenting anyways.And while I am there I can scrounge a couple more boards off him for playing with danish oil that showed up. I am like a kid in a candy store playing with different finishes.

And for something totally unrelated I was playing with tru-oil also on a board. Now all my hunting rifles are done up with tru-oil to a high gloss finish.I have been using it for 35 years as its the only "oil" finish I have used that stands up to 90 degree temps while you are soaking it with sweat and deep woods off and doesnt soften while shooting gophers. An bonus points is that its durable and doesnt slip in your hands when out hunting in the snow. Anyways I took a board,gave it about 20 coats and filled the wood grain with it. Of course about every 3rd coat was dry sanded with 1000 grit to level it out and help speed up the grain filling process. Then when I was happy with it I took 2000 grit and dry sanded it. Not just a scuff but I made sure it was all sanded so no shine was left. Then I took some of the BC stock sheen and conditioner and went at it rubbing in a circular pattern. It took on a very nice shine but not a plastic high gloss look. After that I hit it with some nu-finish car polish. It ends up looking like a high shine guitar finish,very shiney,very slick, but doesnt have that cheap glossy look. I dont think it will be to good in rain though as you would have troubles handling a rifle done up this way. I have watched vids of guys using tru-oil on guitars but they never tell you the steps or conveniently miss out some. Dont want to give the trade secrets away eh!!

The second half of the board got a weird treatment that hit me while looking at it. I took a piece of your everyday paper towel,got it wet with lacquer thinner and wiped it in a straight line. It knocked back the shine to a semi gloss that actually looks really even. I was really impressed with how it turned out.

Any one that has wanted to experiment or wondered about using automotive clear on a stock...dont!! That is unless you wont be hunting with it under wet conditions. Its way to slippery if it gets wet. On a target rifle,chasing gophers etc its fine. I am talking about quality clears and not rattle can crap. Alternately it can be made into a matte,semi gloss or egg shell finish by adjusting the amount of flattening agent that is added to it. But it still ends up pretty slippery.

,
 
...I took a board,gave it about 20 coats and filled the wood grain with it. Of course about every 3rd coat was dry sanded with 1000 grit to level it out and help speed up the grain filling process. Then when I was happy with it I took 2000 grit and dry sanded it. Not just a scuff but I made sure it was all sanded so no shine was left.

This is essentially the same as my method, except I use filler, so I usually only need 8 or 10 coats or so. What you achieved right there is the traditional oil finish. The only way to improve on it would be to step up to sean69's level with scrapers.

Then I took some of the BC stock sheen and conditioner and went at it rubbing in a circular pattern. It took on a very nice shine but not a plastic high gloss look. After that I hit it with some nu-finish car polish. It ends up looking like a high shine guitar finish,very shiney,very slick, but doesnt have that cheap glossy look.

Now you're back to messing-around with mystery grits and waxes or silicones or whatever. If I were you, and I had access to body work supplies, I'd finish another board as you've done, then I'd grab 3 or 4 different grits of 3M Perfect-it or Finesse-it or whatever, and do different regions on the board, and pick the one I liked. At least 3M or PPG will tell you what they've sold you.

Then you can use some of your microcrystalline wax, to finish up in boutique fashion, and save your stash of liquid miracle "wax" for the car.

When you hit the board with your paper towel soaked in lacquer thinner, you probably removed practically all of your top coat. These oils are not like catalysed 2-part clear. LT will strip them clean off, in a flash.
 
This is essentially the same as my method, except I use filler, so I usually only need 8 or 10 coats or so. What you achieved right there is the traditional oil finish. The only way to improve on it would be to step up to sean69's level with scrapers.



Now you're back to messing-around with mystery grits and waxes or silicones or whatever. If I were you, and I had access to body work supplies, I'd finish another board as you've done, then I'd grab 3 or 4 different grits of 3M Perfect-it or Finesse-it or whatever, and do different regions on the board, and pick the one I liked. At least 3M or PPG will tell you what they've sold you.

Then you can use some of your microcrystalline wax, to finish up in boutique fashion, and save your stash of liquid miracle "wax" for the car.

When you hit the board with your paper towel soaked in lacquer thinner, you probably removed practically all of your top coat. These oils are not like catalysed 2-part clear. LT will strip them clean off, in a flash.

You see that the difference here..when doing these boards I can play with anything to see what it works like and the end results. Its a piece of walnut 1x6,not a piece of ### circassian. And you dont wax cars. Any one who does that needs a lesson in paint finishes. All paints need to breathe and by waxing you are sealing in the paint and it cant contract or expand with drastic temperature changes. I use the NU finish for polishing brass in the ol vibrator polisher. Works like a charm with crushed walnut and a helluva lot cheaper then any commercial polishing additives you buy.

An no you dont remove all the top coat when you hit it with lacquer thinner. All you are doing is dulling the shine off the top coat. You dont hit it with a wet soaking rag that its running out of and rub it for 10 minutes.. Its just a quick swipe,just like I can dull a new paint finish with a paper towel dry to knock the shine down and match a pre existing finish.

The BC which is just Birchwood Casey stock sheen and conditioner is something I am sure you are aware of, common product in use for years. Might as well play with it as have it sitting there collecting dust.

Just like at work before water borne paints, take some clear thats left over,have a panel that is silver or gold as a base. Mix in small amount of different paint tinters to the clear and try them as tri-coats. Painters are the guys that do the experimenting at no cost. Plus with the finshes and polishes we have its like x-mas every day with something new coming.
 
All good, but I think you will find that a rag merely dampened in lacquer thinner will dissolve any oil drips or smudges from the edge of your containers with a single swipe. It's what I use to remove cured oil from wood (it leaves no residue) and it works practically instantaneously. Better to use some sort of polish or compound to get the sheen you want.
 
All good, but I think you will find that a rag merely dampened in lacquer thinner will dissolve any oil drips or smudges from the edge of your containers with a single swipe. It's what I use to remove cured oil from wood (it leaves no residue) and it works practically instantaneously. Better to use some sort of polish or compound to get the sheen you want.

But it wont remove oil drips that have dried for a year instantly,which is what that was. It wasnt fresh oil nor did I say it was. Mind you I never said it was on 1 year old dried oil on a board either. Now unless you have something stronger then the lacquer thinner I use or even BLT 20 gun wash I have. I agree that polish and such is better,but you have to remember that when I am painting i have time between coats to "play". Alas, all my playing has to be a liquid type as I cant sand anything,be in any kind of oil or such because of contamination when painting.
 
I told you I could come across as a pedantic ####.

I didn't mean to suggest that you shouldn't play around with stuff in your garage, only that some automotive "paint treatments" & the like contain silicone, which you really want to avoid, as I know you know very well yourself. I simply meant that since you've already explained that you were able to finish your board as you said you did, it's safer to stick with stuff like 3M polish, for that last step, since 3M is very clear and explicit about what they put in their products, and they come in a range of grits that should enable you to nail your desired sheen over and over.

The BC stuff (I've never used it) reminds me of the old Turtle Wax liquid "wash and wax" or whatever they called it that was a combination of abrasives and wax. Probably has its place; just not on my car! Ha ha.

I realise you probably didn't intend to make it part of your final process for the stock in question, but hopefully you see that if a rag dampened with lacquer thinner can degloss a finish applied some unspecified number of days, weeks, or months ago, with a "quick swipe" as you wrote, it's working a bit too fast. When these oils have been applied in the usual way, which is to rub them on, then wipe them off, the top film is just barely there.

I look forward to seeing the final result. I know it will be great!
 
Can anyone suggest/recommend some decent fillers? (natural & colour) I came across Aqua Coat Wood Grain filler from Lee Valley. It is a water based filler and appears to be a natural/clear filler.
 
I told you I could come across as a pedantic ####.

I didn't mean to suggest that you shouldn't play around with stuff in your garage, only that some automotive "paint treatments" & the like contain silicone, which you really want to avoid, as I know you know very well yourself. I simply meant that since you've already explained that you were able to finish your board as you said you did, it's safer to stick with stuff like 3M polish, for that last step, since 3M is very clear and explicit about what they put in their products, and they come in a range of grits that should enable you to nail your desired sheen over and over.

The BC stuff (I've never used it) reminds me of the old Turtle Wax liquid "wash and wax" or whatever they called it that was a combination of abrasives and wax. Probably has its place; just not on my car! Ha ha.

I realise you probably didn't intend to make it part of your final process for the stock in question, but hopefully you see that if a rag dampened with lacquer thinner can degloss a finish applied some unspecified number of days, weeks, or months ago, with a "quick swipe" as you wrote, it's working a bit too fast. When these oils have been applied in the usual way, which is to rub them on, then wipe them off, the top film is just barely there.

I look forward to seeing the final result. I know it will be great!

Hopefully it will be great . But through all this you seem to be forgetting one thing,I am a professional licensed autobody painter in a shop and have been doing it for 35 years. I am not some back yard hack wanna be paint applicator. The two jobs actually cross over and relate to each other. Both are using finishes on a known substrate and both have a certain technique to achieve the desired results. But we both have probably played with different finishes to see what we can achieve. Where wood finishing uses materials that are $20.00 a litre some of my tinters are $480.00 a PINT. Yes,you read that right,$480.00 a pint. When you tell me about paint treatments containing silicone do you not think I dont know about these already? As far as I am concerned silicone is only good for implants!!!!
 
Can anyone suggest/recommend some decent fillers? (natural & colour) I came across Aqua Coat Wood Grain filler from Lee Valley. It is a water based filler and appears to be a natural/clear filler.
Lee Valley sells decent products, so I'd give that one a shot if you didn't want to make a slurry from sanding dust mixed with oil. btw, the slurry can be done off the stock where you can use sanding dust from a similar piece of wood, then mix it with tinted Danish oil. Then apply that thickened mixture as a pore filler. Do several thin coats, lightly sanding between.

With tinted pore fillers, I'd just look for a clear pore filler that is tintable, (like Aqua Coat). Add whatever colouring you want to enhance or reduce contrast. Example: in the past I've stained wood black, sanded it back, leaving the black colouring only in the open grain, then coloured the wood with a dark cherry red stain. The contrast can be stunning. Or mix up a medium dark colour that is in the same colour family as the wood. Then fill the pores with that. Less contrast and still looks great.

The sky is the limit. I've done woodworking projects where the grain looks like fire, with 12 different layers of yellows, oranges and red colouring.
 
Lee Valley sells decent products, so I'd give that one a shot if you didn't want to make a slurry from sanding dust mixed with oil. btw, the slurry can be done off the stock where you can use sanding dust from a similar piece of wood, then mix it with tinted Danish oil. Then apply that thickened mixture as a pore filler. Do several thin coats, lightly sanding between.

With tinted pore fillers, I'd just look for a clear pore filler that is tintable, (like Aqua Coat). Add whatever colouring you want to enhance or reduce contrast. Example: in the past I've stained wood black, sanded it back, leaving the black colouring only in the open grain, then coloured the wood with a dark cherry red stain. The contrast can be stunning. Or mix up a medium dark colour that is in the same colour family as the wood. Then fill the pores with that. Less contrast and still looks great.

The sky is the limit. I've done woodworking projects where the grain looks like fire, with 12 different layers of yellows, oranges and red colouring.

Question on this. With my stock I am doing that has 2 coats of my color altered tung oil on it already,,would mixing up sanding dust and my color altered tung oil from a similar color piece of walnut and using it as a slurry cause a issue? I am thinking this...I have 2 coats of my red oil on the stock, now if I mix up some separate sanding dust with my red oil and apply this as a pore filler would the additional tinted tung oil darken what I already have? Would a person maybe want to apply a coat or 2 of straight uncolored tung oil over the stock first to keep the slurry from soaking in and coloring more?

Its hard to explain!!
 
Question on this. With my stock I am doing that has 2 coats of my color altered tung oil on it already,,would mixing up sanding dust and my color altered tung oil from a similar color piece of walnut and using it as a slurry cause a issue? I am thinking this...I have 2 coats of my red oil on the stock, now if I mix up some separate sanding dust with my red oil and apply this as a pore filler would the additional tinted tung oil darken what I already have? Would a person maybe want to apply a coat or 2 of straight uncolored tung oil over the stock first to keep the slurry from soaking in and coloring more?

Its hard to explain!!

The more "red" you add, the redder your stock is going to get. If the question is "will doing any of these things alter the color of my stock from where things stand now," I think the answer is that it likely will, but it might not do so to extent that it is "too dark," or to the extent that you don't like it any more. You're the only one who can judge that, but there is no filler that won't shift your color a bit, and all of them require sanding or scraping.

Once you have a couple of coats of oil on your stock, as you do now, additional coats of oil are not going to penetrate any deeper, or darken the wood very much more. (Pure) tung oil does not attack itself in the way that nitro lacquer does, so any coats you add from this point are not going to dissolve the cured red coats you already put down, (as long as they don't have solvents added, like in that recipe you posted.) Cured tung oil is more like polyurethane, in that respect.

Still, anything "colored" that you add to the pores is bound to shift the overall color somewhat. In this photo, we can see that the pores in the open end grain look "black." They'd probably look different if the light were coming from above. If we filled them with something other than a very dark (i.e. black or dark brown) filler, they'll look lighter, the overall effect from a few feet away is liable to be "lightening." At the same time, they'll look darker if filled with a dark filler than they would in this photo if the light were coming straight-on:

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If you look to the left, at the face grain, you can see the dark lines that result when walnut capillaries have been exposed sort of axially. You probably have lines like this in your own stock, since gun stocks are usually made from plain/quarter-sawn blanks. The interior of those pores is darker than the surrounding "solid" wood, probably due to minerals or spalting or something. I don't really know, but walnut generally looks like that.

Obviously, opaque white filler would lighten those lines, and opaque dark filler would darken them. I would venture that "red" filler that's made from sawdust would lighten them -- their dark walls would be obscured, and there would no longer be any shadow in them, and the overall effect (from a few feet away) would be one of "lightening."

I would caution though that if you take from this that you should use a darker filler, that might require some extra sanding... unless the tops of your capillaries/pores are very sharp and truly "square," I can imagine the filler sitting on top of those pores in a sort of "golf tee" shape, as the filler sort of flares out at the top where the top corners of those pores are rounded over. I think this could have a fairly marked effect on the resulting overall color, whether your filler is red, or otherwise.

That would usually mean more sanding, to get down to where the tops of the pores are sharp and square -- something that is almost certain to disrupt your existing color. Oil finishes penetrate pores, or course, but they don't penetrate the solid wood nearly as far, and it is not going to take much to sand through your color, or at least lighten it.

If it were me, I'd wet-sand the stock with red oil, and continue to use it for some (if not all) of the subsequent coats. That's your best bet for getting a uniform color, I think -- trying to avoid sanding your existing color is making everything way to dicey and complicated.

If you wipe the stock down thoroughly (after waiting a half-hour or so for the oil to start to set-up) after each coat, you won't add much (or maybe even any) new color to the top surface of the wood. Most of it is going to come from the first couple of coats.
 
Good post cleger. This pic reinforces what you’re saying.

This is a closeup of a stock I finished where I didn’t fill in the pores so it would fit the style I wanted. If I did want to fill them, personally I’d go dark in this case.

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So this morning after getting tired of wracking my brain I took a sample board and sanded it to get some walnut dust. Then I took another board that is at 600 grit and laid a coat of red oil on it and left it wet for 30 minutes. Then I sprinkled a light coat, more like a pinch of walnut dust on one corner,and rubbed it in. It didnt lighten it but just made the open grain pores a little darker and filled it about 50%. Good enough,I have a direction now.

Mixed up a slurry of walnut dust and red oil and started rubbing the stock, just on the butt in about a 2 inch square section. Pores filling and no color change so the whole stock got it. I did notice a few things and learnt fast. When you rub the stock the pores fill to a certain extent. I used the heel of my hand. once it was starting to get warm I noticed that the pores were opening back up. The oil was drying to much and my hand was actually pulling the slurry out of the pores. OK..adjust with a little more oil and less rubbing. Even when it started to dry if I wiped it with the grain it was pulling it out so I went a happy medium. Enough to fill the pores about 50% and leave just a slight mud on top to let dry with no wiping. Once I wet sand this down now I can see how much actually filled. This stock actually has a very open grain so I was happy with a 50% fill or so with the first coat.

I have a gunsmithing book here that has a section by Sterling Davenport on stock finishes and using the dust as a filler. I reread some parts of it and on his first 2 filler coats he says to leave the mud on top to help fill the grain and let dry.. Then wet sand it back with oil,just enough to get the mud off the top but not cut thru the underlying finish. Then by that time it should be able to be just wet sanded with the finer slurry filling anything left. Each coat is sanded down to show the grain underneath but not thru it. This might take me 4,5,6 coats to do,only time will tell. He starts the filling process when he hits 320 grit and doesnt mix a slurry like I did. So he sands it to 320 grit,applies a wet coat of tung oil and lets it dry for a week, then starts filling it. An of course he didnt stain it so I have to kind of wing it as I am going. But once it dries,say a week I should be able to get the slurry sanded down and see where I am at.

Couple of things I did notice,when filling where the grain was fairly closed and using my hand, the wood was taking on a nice sheen to it. It was getting that nice glow to it but not a glossy shine. That was only after 3 coats of oil in total in that one spot. Using a plastic container for mixing a slurry results in the plastic container making sure you dont dog it as its melting! An no, there is no contamination from the plastic,just the tung oil softens plastic. My house will stink like tung oil again for another week, good thing I am single. I need to make up more red oil!!! Finally,at least I have a direction to take this in now!!
 
A couple picks of my 100% Pure Tung Oil, Tru-Oil, Mineral Spirits, Renaissance Wax refinish job on a Beretta 425.

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And to give an idea of the before condition.....

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