How Do You Guys Understand and Report Rifle Accuracy?

South Pender

South Pender

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I've often wondered just what a shooter means when he says about a rifle "it will shoot 1/2" groups all day." Or when he refers to a rifle as a 1/2MOA gun. Does this mean that all his groups hover around 1/2MOA? Or does it mean that he was able to shoot one or two 1/2MOA groups, while his other groups with the rifle were closer to 1MOA or greater?

In my opinion, the NRA practice (in their rifle tests reported in the American Rifleman) of shooting five consecutive 5-shot groups at 100 yards and reporting the average is a very good way to characterize rifle accuracy. It's important that the report is of consecutive groups so that cherry-picking of groups is not occurring. Using the average of 10 consecutive 5-shot groups is even better. It seems that some shooters believe that, if their rifle will produce one 1/2" group, that this indicates the guns' inherent accuracy and that larger groups are irrelevant.

Having given my preference for reporting accuracy, what do you guys understand it to mean when a shooter reports on his 1/2MOA rifle?
 
I can put this in perspective if I can put four shots inside a four inch circle at 200 yards to me my rifle is accurate enough - a rifle that's a 1/2 MOA would be able to put the same amount of rounds inside a 1 inch circle at 200 yards. Their rifle costs 10 times more than what my did - my four shots at 200 yards measured .81 inches - is my rifle a 1/2 MOA gun - short answer is No
 
The sticky at the top of the sub forum for hunting rifles and target rifles "my rifle shoots 1/2 moa, so prove it" to be very telling.
 
South Pender said:
I've often wondered just what a shooter means when he says about a rifle "it will shoot 1/2" groups all day." Or when he refers to a rifle as a 1/2MOA gun. Does this mean that all his groups hover around 1/2MOA? Or does it mean that he was able to shoot one or two 1/2MOA groups, while his other groups with the rifle were closer to 1MOA or greater?

In my opinion, the NRA practice (in their rifle tests reported in the American Rifleman) of shooting five consecutive 5-shot groups at 100 yards and reporting the average is a very good way to characterize rifle accuracy. It's important that the report is of consecutive groups so that cherry-picking of groups is not occurring. Using the average of 10 consecutive 5-shot groups is even better. It seems that some shooters believe that, if their rifle will produce one 1/2" group, that this indicates the guns' inherent accuracy and that larger groups are irrelevant.

Having given my preference for reporting accuracy, what do you guys understand it to mean when a shooter reports on his 1/2MOA rifle?
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A real good question. Guys who know way more about it than me that post here are pretty clear that 1/2" groups at 100 yards do not translate into 1/2MOA at 300 or 600 yards - often. I had read somewhere that a military - British, USA? - used 4 consectutive 10 shot groups to decide if a lot of ammo met their standard. So, 40 shots, for record - no allowance for "fliers" or whatever other excuse.

So, my view, would be that if someone claimed he has a 1/2" MOA rifle, I would meet him at the range - pick the 200 or 300 or 600 yard target and say "show me" - his next five shots. Either he and the rifle can, or they can't. That is what I think "1/2 MOA" rifle means. Can do it on demand, or can not.

EDIT: Even more challenging, for "real world", is hit a 1/2 MOA target - every time - just get that one cold bore shot - like the "real guys" do - either hit or not. Or maybe it is really a 1 MOA deal. Or 3 MOA. Or 10 MOA - Easy enough to prove - "all day long"... just takes one shot.
 
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A 222 or 6ppc bench rest rifle may full well be able to shoot sub 1/2 moa at 100m repeatability. But few will do that beyond 300M. They're still sub 1/2 moa rifles.
 
I play by the same procedure as I always have for decade's, and not what others do. Three shot groups only at 100 yards. If I mention 1/2" groups, it means: all three shots and groups were 1/2" and less at 100 yards. The 3 shot groups were never intended to find the smallest group, it was intended to locate the average point of impact, and to adjust the scope turret to the POI he choses, for the purpose of hunting big game.
 
My personal benchmark for hunting rifles is a magazine full into five inches at 300 meters. That's 328 yards, and is is convenient because we have a setup at 300 meters on our silhouette range. ;)

That means that, from the bench, every shot lands within 2 1/2 inches of the aiming point, and that is certainly good enough for hunting accuracy.

Ted
 
Why not? said:
My personal benchmark for hunting rifles is a magazine full into five inches at 300 meters. That's 328 yards, and is is convenient because we have a setup at 300 meters on our silhouette range. ;)

That means that, from the bench, every shot lands within 2 1/2 inches of the aiming point, and that is certainly good enough for hunting accuracy.

Ted
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Well said.
 
Why not? said:
My personal benchmark for hunting rifles is a magazine full into five inches at 300 meters. That's 328 yards, and is is convenient because we have a setup at 300 meters on our silhouette range. ;)

That means that, from the bench, every shot lands within 2 1/2 inches of the aiming point, and that is certainly good enough for hunting accuracy.

Ted
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That is really good and more than enough for most hunting situations!!
 
I would base my declaration on a minimum of four consecutive 5 shot groups at 100M. I have “heard” a lot of 1/2 MOA claims but have not “seen” many at the target board.
 
For me accuracy is measure by the height of the group. Minimum 5 shot groups for the first testing then 10 shot groups to confirm. This is for a heavy barreled target rifle and shot under match condition, ie with a jacket and sling. When testing I shoot all the shots for each group without looking through the spotting scope, unless I break a bad shot and will have a peek to confirm that I FU that shots.
In our game the bull is 2 MOA with a 1 MOA V bull. So between my hold, the ammo, the light, my aiming error (iron sights) and the wind I hope to hold less that 2 MOA all the way out to 1000 yards. Doesn’t happen all the time with all things considered, but some time it does all come together.
 
Hunting rifles are assessed based on a series of 3 shot groups. A minimum of 3 groups defines repeatability.
Target or specific long range rifles are assessed based upon 5 shot groups, with a minimum of 3 groups to define repeatability.

The rub in the whole equation is how does the shooter perform once they get off the bench. 1/2MOA rifles often end up shooting 2MOA groups once the shooter has to use a field position, back pack, or even a bipod.
 
It doesn't matter how you measure your group as long as you do it the same way each time. I expect group sizes reported in a forum should be taken with a grain of salt, and I leave it at that. I don't care except in the technical sense if the results are exaggerated. I'm not in a make-believe competition.
 
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for a lot of people if the rifle shoots 1/2 moa once they call it a 1/2 moa rifle.

for myself, if it prints multiple 1/2 MOA groups then it is a 1/2 moa rifle but there has to be some consistency and not one here or there. Ideally though to be called such one would average out multiple groups and make sure the average was such.
 
Lefty #### said:
Hunting rifles are assessed based on a series of 3 shot groups. A minimum of 3 groups defines repeatability.
Target or specific long range rifles are assessed based upon 5 shot groups, with a minimum of 3 groups to define repeatability.

The rub in the whole equation is how does the shooter perform once they get off the bench. 1/2MOA rifles often end up shooting 2MOA groups once the shooter has to use a field position, back pack, or even a bipod.
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Agreed. Which is why I use the bench for sighting and dialing in, and just a sling and steady positions for groups. As real as it gets.
 
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