Case sizing issues. Help wanted!!

Airgunnr

Airgunnr

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I recently purchased a Whidden click adjustment full length bushing sizer die in 223. The issue I'm having is that when I size my brass, the bottom part of the shoulder bumps to proper size using a bump shoulder gauge, but the majority of the shoulder, especially near the neck bulges out away from the centerline of the case. Instead of a nice straight angle on the shoulder, you get a small straight edge close to the case body but the upper half balloons out. I have adjusted how much case lube is used to see if that was causing issues. No change. The only thing that I can see causing the problem is that the clearance hole in the die that allows the case neck to slid into the neck bushing is too large. When looking up into the die from the bottom side, there is a very small area that bumps the shoulder. Is it possible that the clearance hole for the neck was drilled to large and therefore there isnt enough material to actually keep the shoulder from bulging out? Haven't tried calling Whidden as I've received some great advice on here.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
A picture of a piece of sized brass would allow everyone to be on the same page.

Which platform has this brass been fire thru?
Has this brass been fired thru a different firearm & attempting to size for a different platform?
How many times has this brass been fired?
Have you attempted to size a piece of said brass thru a F/L non bushing die prior to running it thru your bushing die?
Have you mic'd the web/body/neck of a fired piece of brass & compare it to a sized piece of brass?


Many variables & questions w/o more specifics.
 
I have tried sizing brass from both my 223's, a savage axis and savage model 12. I have tried brass that was once fired, another fired 4 times and brass that has been fired 16 times. No difference between any of them. The brass has been starline, nosler and federal. All the brass started out as 223 and has not been altered in any way. I did take some photos which I hope I can get to upload here, which I sent to Whidden. I've tried sizing the brass using other full length sizers which work as they should. I have not mic'd the brass thickness. I placed a borescope down the die to see if any manufacturing defects can be seen. Nothing to note of there.
I compared sized brass out of a full length sizer and that of the whidden FL bushing sizer die and noticed that the neck gets sized a lot further down the neck that other FL sizers. If I get the photos up you will see it. As well, the shoulder lands in the whidden die are a lot smaller than that of my RCBS or redding dies.
Hope that info helps.20210415_191802.jpg20210415_201004.jpg20210415_193236.jpg20210415_193323.jpg
 

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I noticed that too and tried to back the die off. It did help slightly but still caused the case shoulder to bulge. I'm starting to think that the neck bushing is too close to the shoulder and therefore squeezing material back down towards the shoulder. Without a full shoulder present in the die, the material flows into the void below the neck bushing. I will be taking physical measurements of the die itself and sending that information back to Whidden. They have been good to deal with as we try and figure out what's going on.
 
It appears that it almost has a double radius shoulder, simular to a Weatherby case. Maybe you have a 240 Wby. die, instead of a 243 Winchester? I would file that die under garbage and then purchase a brand new RCBS full length two die set...............problem solved!
 
Hitzy...... I followed the instructions to the letter. I have tried adjusting die height up and down to no avail. It does the same thing if there is no shoulder bump and when i get 0.005" shoulder bump it does the same thing. I've even tried over exaggerating the adjustments both ways to see if anything happens. Same result except when I raise the die up too high, not much happens as to be expected.
Track.... I just looked up a 240 wby case. Shoulder area looks very similar to what I'm getting
 
Airgunnr said:
Wasnt done with that last message, my bad.
Track..... the markings on the die say 223 rem but the way the shoulder area is forming looks ironically like the 240 wby shoulder area.
Click to expand...

Something just doesn't add-up. I never heard of this brand name of die, Whidden, and I never witnessed a case deformed as such. If it's a 223 Rem. sizing die, maybe mistaken for a 224 Weatherby Mag, it wants to have that double radius shoulder.
 
They are out of Tennessee. From what I read people seemed happy with their product. I will say that their customer service has been very prompt and good to deal with so far. Guess that's the one benefit of dealing with a smaller company. Now I just hope that we can make sense of what is going on. I have a couple measurements to take after work tonight and I will be passing that info along to the company owner so that he can try and provide a path forward. At the end of the day though, like you said earlier, I've already placed an order for a full length sizer from RCBS to use in the meantime. I will keep you posted as to what the company says is the problem. Thanks for all your input.
 
Just email Whidden with your problem and attach your bulging shoulder case photo. A picture is worth a thousand words.

Your shoulder is not being pushed back correctly, my guess is it is simply a wrong die or a bad die and needs replaced.
 
Just sent the email this morning with lots of photos. Tried a couple of things as prescribed and still getting the same results. I was given some measurements to check. They also took some other dies off their shelf to check those and see how they function. Haven't heard back how that went. I have a feeling the measurements I take tonight wont jive with what nominal dimensions i was given. Just looking at how far down the neck gets sized is an indicator the bushing is sitting too low in the die. It cant be how far down the die gets screwed into the press as you can only go so far as to bottom out the die on the shell holder. Basically they tell you to bottom out the die and then wind out half a turn. The pitch on the thread is 0.071" per revolution so a half turn would be just over 0.035". If you look at the photos from the first page, that neck is sized a lot further down the neck than my other case. So it's out by much more than half a turn of a die. Perhaps once this lockdown lifts, I'll give the die to another handloader and ask them to try it out. If all else fails it will sure make a nice paperweight.
 
Whidden makes some of the best dies out there, I have the F/L bushing sizing die in 6.5 Creedmoor and it works flawlessly. Quick question have you taken out the decaping pin assembly from the die? Some of their dies for certain calibers require a spacer or another bushing can be used to have the proper spacing when not using the decaping pin assembly. The way it was explained to me was install the bushing you want to use, add another bushing to act as a spacer and then thread your plug and plug nut. Or you might have the wrong die and was labelled wrong which happens, they make all the dies in house. John and Carrie will take care of you.

View attachment 485950
 
I've been in contact with John. He didnt mention using a spacer or having to alter the die in any way. I dont think double stacking the bushings will solve the problem as the bore machined inside the die to accept the bushing will set the position in relation to the body and neck. If I were to place a larger sized bushing below to allow clearance around the neck before entering the proper bushing it would barely touch the top of the neck due to the bushing thickness. Thanks for the info and when I talk to John tomorrow I'll mention it to him.
 
track;17981717 I would file that die under garbage and then purchase a brand new RCBS full length two die set...............problem solved![/QUOTE said:
+1 the whidden die must have features way over my head I doubt if I could ever use it
Click to expand...
 
Your bushing floats. There is also a chamfer on the bushing. There will be a portion of the neck that is not sized. But there does appear to be an issue with the shoulder. I’ve sized lots of 223 cases with a Whidden FL bushing die with no issue.
 
track said:
It appears that it almost has a double radius shoulder, simular to a Weatherby case. Maybe you have a 240 Wby. die, instead of a 243 Winchester? I would file that die under garbage and then purchase a brand new RCBS full length two die set...............problem solved!
Click to expand...

Whidden dies are hardly garbage.
 
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