coleman1495
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Whitecourt
A little off topic but hows your IBI CFW barrel coming? Hows the accuracy been?
Quickest and most efficient load dev technique?
- Thread starter MartyK2500
- Start date
A little off topic but hows your IBI CFW barrel coming? Hows the accuracy been?
It’s on standby right now.
For the 150 rounds that it was on a Savage 10, it was very nice to reload for.
Had a few sub 1/2 groups before screwing it off.
My only complaint was lack of velocity but 22’’ vs my usual 26’’ will do that.
It was a Savage 10 FCP-SR that was badly plagued with extraction issues, I couldn’t stand this for a hunting rifle.
Right now it’s screwed on a bighorn origin, TT diamond, ARC M10 low rings, NF NXS 2.5-10x42 MIL-R
Been waiting on my Manners MCS-T for 7 months now.
I figured with that stock I’d be at 8lbs4oz scoped, including AICS magpul mag, excluding ammo.
With the 4 flush cups on stock, I can use a Vickers BFG sling and tight her up real tight to my chest, to walk in the woods unburdened.
Missed this coyote season with it, plan on making next one with!
For the 150 rounds that it was on a Savage 10, it was very nice to reload for.
Had a few sub 1/2 groups before screwing it off.
My only complaint was lack of velocity but 22’’ vs my usual 26’’ will do that.
It was a Savage 10 FCP-SR that was badly plagued with extraction issues, I couldn’t stand this for a hunting rifle.
Right now it’s screwed on a bighorn origin, TT diamond, ARC M10 low rings, NF NXS 2.5-10x42 MIL-R
Been waiting on my Manners MCS-T for 7 months now.
I figured with that stock I’d be at 8lbs4oz scoped, including AICS magpul mag, excluding ammo.
With the 4 flush cups on stock, I can use a Vickers BFG sling and tight her up real tight to my chest, to walk in the woods unburdened.
Missed this coyote season with it, plan on making next one with!
coleman1495
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Whitecourt
That sounds promising! I’m looking forward to updates on it. I still want a CFW setup and I’m thinking of going with IBI
Still good to be in a node and not just wing it. Open a new lot of powder, new box of bullets, shoot in the winter or summer. Load in the middle of a 1 MOA node at least. Maybe if someone is 250yards and under, then who cares. Also better accuracy is nice as hunters often in an awkward position/out of position all the time, and accuracy can really suffer compared to a bench or shooting mat.
never had a issue huntin with loadin 3x rounds from 1 or 2 gr up from MIN to MAX and picking one thats closest together................. quite often end up with 3-6 rounds left an satisfactory deer huntin or in other instances, fox shootin, loads.
thus often uses up to 20 rounds per Box of 50, allowin 30rounds to hunt * also confirm Zeros at 200-300 if thats yer thing.
gives good idea of how that particular bullet works,then try another
Edit- ya might do a half gr load either side if ya really want an Go
Stop teasing the nerds!
Munkey1973
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Regina, SK
Agreed regarding finding the flat spot.
I have been running the 200 MKs 2nd gen for my third season now.
Despite a piss-poor performance in judging wind changes this past weekend at Nokomis, I think I've had reasonable success with these 200 MKs given that I have only 5 years in F T/R.
I have flat spots at the 41.8 grn Varget and another with 43.0 Varget.
After 43.2 I am starting to compress loads in my fireformed 308 Lapua Palma cases.
As luck (maybe science ?) would have it, my ES with 43 Varget are around 7-9 fps on most 15 round strings..... BTW at 43.0 I am doing 2,660 fps with my 30 inch Kreiger 1:9.
I also agree that seat depth testing comes second after finding the best charge weight.
I have to disagree, however, that you test in increments of 0.003 depths.... IMO this is where you will burn up components needlessly.
For long pointy bullets (or any bullets for that matter) I follow something similar to what Berger recommends for tuning their VLDs.....my exception is that I generally never do any kind of seating Jam.
I've never had a gun (chamber) that has ever seemed like a Jam .... they all have grouped like absolute sh#te.
https://bergerbullets.com/getting-the-best-precision-and-accuracy-from-vld-bullets-in-your-rifle/
After I found 43 varget as my go-to charge, I loaded 5 rounds (Berger recommends 6) of each at :
0.000 on the lands ...
0.010 jump ...
0.020 jump...
0.030 jump
0.040 jump
0.050 jump
Just like Berger has stated in their VLD article -one of these groups will (it really WILL) be way better than all of the others.
In my case, it was 0.030 jump.
So the next range trip I then made 5 more rounds @ 0.025 ... 0.030 ... 0.035
I had observed that 0.025 and the 0.030 were very similar in group size...... so I took a point in between these two "sweet spots" and now my go-to seating depth is 0.028
I know of 2 other guys that use the 200 MKs that compete here in Saskatchewan F T/R and they are both around the 0.030 jump.
Another thing that I have overserved regarding 2nd gen 200 MK is that Sierra really means it when they recommend a 1:9 twist..... I have a sneaking suspicion that most guys who have experimented with this projectile and had a bad experience were trying to use 1:10 or slower twist rates.... might be fine for Berger 200s but now the Sierrra's.
Last edited:
Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated.
It gives me a powder charge starting point for my 200SMKs and some expected flat points to gradually reach (looking for pressure).
I know results will vary, but I have noticed in other setups, there are some general flat points that work in all similar setups.
My barrel is a Krieger, 4g, 9T, 31'', Heavy palma.
I do not know anything about FTR and just went along the builders recommendations.
I like your seating depth approach.
Right there I realise how much components I was burning, will test this weekend in a known rifle with a known load to see if results vary from what I've got.
Let's say I'll pretend to lose my data and start it up from scratch, and see how quick I'll get there.
As previously mentionned, all comps are closed due to covid and at some point load experimenting, target plotting and translating velocity data to graphs are the only things to bring me some level of pleasure, even if not the most exciting thing around.
I do have a question for you, what distance and how many rounds are used to test powder charges?
Bergers recommendations are correct, one of those seating depths will likely work. Munkey, I shoot from my mag so for me the .010 - 040 jumps were never even loaded up. Saved components right there, and technically you ended up between 0.025 and 0.030 and stopped 0.003" in-between . I agree, to start from lands and going .003 jump tests out to .050 and beyond is too much, however you won't need to go that far out to find a node, at .003" jumps, at least from what I found.
Munkey1973
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Regina, SK
I did 5 loads at 10 different load levels of Varget.
Used a Magnetospeed to measure velocity.
Whenever I record speeds I try to simulate a FTR match day.
That being, I first do a "blow off," (much like how most matches begin) and bring the barrel to temperature with about 10 to 15 rounds over about 3 minutes. They don't need to be quality rounds.. could be cheap junk ammo for all I care.
Give the gun about 3 minutes to cool down a bit.
After that, I start record data. Shoot the first batch with about 1 minute gap in between shoots. When that groups is done... 3 minute cool down then repeat the next batch with a 1 minute gap between.
Munkey1973
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Regina, SK
Not sure what you mean... If like was I doing a ladder test ? Then no.
I don't really know how to extrapolate data from ladder test to honest.
I've watch countless video on Ladder Tests (guys using markers to colour bullets and see where they hit on paper..... It seems way too complicated to me).
I've had far more experienced F class guys try to explain ladders it me and goes through one ear and out the other.
Even if I did understand how to interpret ladder tests, I couldn't do them because I am using a Magnetospeed.
I have a 1.25 inch straight taper barrel (with straight flutes) so its almost as ridged as it get.... and that does not matter, a Magnetospeed wildly opens up the group size.
The objective of my speed test was to (1) graph the speed and find the flat spot(s) and (2) find out how the Extreme spreads were at those speeds.
PIO were moot.
I used the data to determine that 43.0 (maybe even 42.8) is where I wanted to be -the rate of change in FPS was 7 and the extreme spread was good too (also 7)
In hindsight, I could have started the loads at 42.0 or 42.4 instead of 41.4 and saved some components.
BTW I did not mention in previous post that my seating depth during the speed test were at 0.020 for all charge levels.
I then went on to test all the various seating depths at 43.0 varget.
Below is a 5 shot string at 100 M with my .028 jump (Cartridge Base to Ogive = 2.168).
This depth yielded the tightest vertical dispersion of 0.377 ( = .685 -.308)
I've done much better at 100 M with a 185 Jagernuat with around 0.300 VD
But does the 185 hold a better waterline at 1,000 yards than the 200 MK ... no sir it does not !
I understand now thanks for clarifying .
To be honest a few folks around here convinced me that shooting in a berm and only take velocity data was a bad thing, maybe it is maybe it isn’t.
Since I have a labradar, I have the luxury of both shooting at a target and chrono at the same time.
We’ll see if both data work well together in my case.
To be honest a few folks around here convinced me that shooting in a berm and only take velocity data was a bad thing, maybe it is maybe it isn’t.
Since I have a labradar, I have the luxury of both shooting at a target and chrono at the same time.
We’ll see if both data work well together in my case.
Munkey1973
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Regina, SK
I went small rifle primer because I heard they are more durable...... agreed though, probably does SFA for accuracy.
Even if does, it would be negligible.
Reloading perfection at the bench will never be a,substitute for trigger time at a range with switchy winds !
Munkey1973
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Regina, SK
Munkey1973
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Regina, SK
You should find the time
I am on the club's Board (treasurer).
I like to feel that we are a very welcoming bunch, and are trying to increase our membership base.
Great bunch of guys out there really...some of the best people I've met in my life.
Generally speaking, until you become a regular "familiar" face, the range is only open to members during a match (or practice days just before big match like Provincials or Western's is to commence).
If after a year or two, you become a regular competitor and we get to know who you are .... (effectively earn the board's trust) you are given the combination to the gate which would allow access to the range on non match days and allow you to rent one of the club's ShotMarkers for the day.
Our next match is the weekend of June 12 & 13 ..
First year membership is $25 (normally $100).... shoot either day or both days ($50 each day)....make at least 150 loads and come on down !
Last edited:
You should find the time
I am on the club's Board (treasurer).
I like to feel that we are a very welcoming bunch, and are trying to increase our membership base.
Great bunch of guys out there really...some of the best people I've met in my life.
Generally speaking, until you become a regular "familiar" face, the range is only open to members during a match (or practice days just before big match like Provincials or Western's is to commence).
If after a year or two, you become a regular competitor and we get to know who you are .... (effectively earn the board's trust) you are given the combination to the gate which would allow access to the range on non match days and allow you to rent one of the club's ShotMarkers for the day.
Our next match is the weekend of June 12 & 13 ..
First year membership is $25 (normally $100).... shoot either day or both days ($50 each day)....make at least 150 loads and come on down !
I will be busy that weekend unfortunately. I understand the part about becoming a regular, but it would be nice to practice more at distance before just attending match, I usually only get to shoot at my spot in the spring before seeding and after harvest. ( not my land, but have permission )
Have only been out to 1000 yards. a few times. I need to find an all season spot but have not had time for that yet either.
There is no need to practice more before you come out. Best way to learn is by coming out and shooting a match, guys are always willing to help you out once you're there. Being able to shoot on e-targets and having wind flags you will be able to learn alot in a short period of time. Hope to see you out there sometime.
