Ontario Moose second allocation surplus tags

billbmcleod

billbmcleod

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Back very close to Bruce County
So the Second Allocation application are now being put in. There seems to be a lot of tags available in some WMU's from hunters not accepting/purchasing their tag from the first allocation.
And I do know that there are no surplus tags anymore. However!
With the new system hunters have until the end of the season to purchase their tag. If they decide not to purchase it that tag is burned and no one gets it. Perhaps there should have been a cut off date to purchase your tag or it goes into a pool like the old Surplus Tag phone in system where there are three days to pick up a tag you want on the phone in lottery. As it is now there is no penalty for not purchasing your tag if you decide to let it burn. I am going to copy this to the NRISC (MNRF) as well as the OFAH for their comments. I assume that the advisory group that came up with this system has thought about this but there is a limit as to how much they can control. I guess we also have to but some faith in the integrity of the hunters that they would not intentionally burn tags that someone else could use.

Bill
 
Hello - do not think I have a "dog in this fight" since I am from Manitoba. However, if I read correctly - someone could "save a moose" at no cost, by entering an Ontario Moose draw, getting selected and then not buying the tag?? Prevents anyone else from getting that tag? Sounds ripe for "shenanigans", if I read that correctly!!! And I am also presuming there is no fee or cost for applications - from the "old days" on the Prairies...
 
Second moose tag is a small percentage of allocated tags. In my area it is mainly calf tags that were not claimed. So if a calf gets to see another day, so be it. Ain't going to lose sleep over it.
 
Potashminer said:
Hello - do not think I have a "dog in this fight" since I am from Manitoba. However, if I read correctly - someone could "save a moose" at no cost, by entering an Ontario Moose draw, getting selected and then not buying the tag?? Prevents anyone else from getting that tag? Sounds ripe for "shenanigans", if I read that correctly!!! And I am also presuming there is no fee or cost for applications - from the "old days" on the Prairies...
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You do need a hunting license qualification to enter the draw and a $15.00 fee. So only qualified hunters can get involved. If however you only hunted duck/goose you could spend $15.00 to have a chance to save a moose if you were so inclined.
 
billbmcleod said:
So the Second Allocation application are now being put in. There seems to be a lot of tags available in some WMU's from hunters not accepting/purchasing their tag from the first allocation.
And I do know that there are no surplus tags anymore. However!
With the new system hunters have until the end of the season to purchase their tag. If they decide not to purchase it that tag is burned and no one gets it. Perhaps there should have been a cut off date to purchase your tag or it goes into a pool like the old Surplus Tag phone in system where there are three days to pick up a tag you want on the phone in lottery. As it is now there is no penalty for not purchasing your tag if you decide to let it burn. I am going to copy this to the NRISC (MNRF) as well as the OFAH for their comments. I assume that the advisory group that came up with this system has thought about this but there is a limit as to how much they can control. I guess we also have to but some faith in the integrity of the hunters that they would not intentionally burn tags that someone else could use.

Bill
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I'm sure your observations are accurate. Rest well assured that secondary tags will be few and far between for all but the most remote WMU's. That was the statement referred to by the OFAH and OMNRF pertaining to past secondary draw allocation criteria. So far,there's no available data which could result in changes.
 
Trimmer 905 said:
I'm sure your observations are accurate. Rest well assured that secondary tags will be few and far between for all but the most remote WMU's. That was the statement referred to by the OFAH and OMNRF pertaining to past secondary draw allocation criteria. So far there's no available data which could result in changes.
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And I doubt that the OMNRF will release or publish how many tags were not claimed when they do know.

Bill
 
billbmcleod said:
Perhaps there should have been a cut off date to purchase your tag or it goes into a pool like the old Surplus Tag phone in system where there are three days to pick up a tag you want on the phone in lottery.
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The old phone-in system was horrible, and good riddance to it. Tried for years to get through, nothing but busy signals. Only succeeded once and by then the tag I wanted was gone.
 
9.3mauser said:
The old phone-in system was horrible, and good riddance to it. Tried for years to get through, nothing but busy signals. Only succeeded once and by then the tag I wanted was gone.
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You are correct. Lots of busy signals but what do you expect when a couple of thousand or more are trying for 50 or less popular tags on speed dial. But at least those tags were paid for and issued.
 
Potashminer said:
Hello - do not think I have a "dog in this fight" since I am from Manitoba. However, if I read correctly - someone could "save a moose" at no cost, by entering an Ontario Moose draw, getting selected and then not buying the tag?? Prevents anyone else from getting that tag? Sounds ripe for "shenanigans", if I read that correctly!!! And I am also presuming there is no fee or cost for applications - from the "old days" on the Prairies...
Click to expand...

There's no "save a moose". If the quota for a WMU is 50 bull. The top 50 hunters in terms of accumulated points get the option to take the bull tag. If only 40 decide to take it, the remaining 10 tags go into the second chance draw. Only if any of those 10 aren't taken will there be safe moose.
 
coreyd said:
There's no "save a moose". If the quota for a WMU is 50 bull. The top 50 hunters in terms of accumulated points get the option to take the bull tag. If only 40 decide to take it, the remaining 10 tags go into the second chance draw. Only if any of those 10 aren't taken will there be safe moose.
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Second allocation and second choice there is no obligation to pick up the tag. Save that moose.
 
billbmcleod said:
Second allocation and second choice there is no obligation to pick up the tag. Save that moose.
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So if a group didn't get drawn in the primary but does get drawn for the second chance they should decline the tag and just not hunt for the year? Save a moose?

The MNR doesn't work out out quuota numbers with an extra X percent because they figure some tags will be declined. They work out the quota based on how many moose can/should be taken to maintain a healthy population in the area.
 
I’m loving the second chance no points burn. We have property in 41. I applied for second chance bull knowing I won’t draw with only a dozen points. My second and 3rd choice are calf. I’m not a big moose hunter so for me pulling a draw tag is a bonus for the season and if I see a calf on the property and got lucky with a tag then I can harvest one. I’m saving my yearly points for a bull down the road with my kids. My oldest boy is banking points so we can hunt a few more years down the road. If your a yearly moose hunter this system may tick you off. For a guy like me it’s perfect!
 
CZ-ER said:
Wow didn't realize that you don't loose your points, win ,win
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A lot of people don’t realize that. Choice 2 and 3 basically replace the old surplus tag phone in system that was horrible. First choice if awarded and accepted would lose your points though.

It’ll take some time for some guys to figure out the system. One guy in our group had a fair number of points and drew a bull tag for the area our group usually hunts so we know what we have. Now our other hunters in our group will put in for something that they’ll never get on Choice 1, like a bull in a popular area, then put in for a cow for Choice 2 and Choice 3 and as these are a random draw and no points will be lost if that tag is accepted.
 
CZ-ER said:
Why would someone enter the second allocation if they had no plan to take the tag
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With the exception of choice 2 & 3 in round 2 of the draw, claiming a tag costs precious points. Savy groups will become more strategic with their points to optimize their chances each year. These groups will only want one or two tags each year e.g. a bull and a cow/calf tag and possibly a calf tag. Groups that draw more tags than they absolutely need will turn back (not claim) tags to save points for next year. Since hunters apply as individuals, we have to wait until the results come back to figure out how the group fared and what to do i.e. claim the tag or not. Another consideration is the cost of tags: calf tag $30.00, cow/calf tag $150.00, bull tag $200.00.

To sum up, the motivation for not claiming a tag is to save points for next year and saving money.
 
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