Yes, 2 blacktail bucks and 1 doe with a .243W and 85gr TSX this season.
2 bang flops and the 3rd went 20 yds and fell over. all 3 shots were complete passthru the upper ribs behind the shoulder, 1/2" entry, 1-1.5" exit, no meat damage.
TSX Bang Flops
- Thread starter Gatehouse
- Start date
Yes, 2 blacktail bucks and 1 doe with a .243W and 85gr TSX this season.
2 bang flops and the 3rd went 20 yds and fell over. all 3 shots were complete passthru the upper ribs behind the shoulder, 1/2" entry, 1-1.5" exit, no meat damage.
Can't we all agree that the TSX pretty much made any and all big game rifle bullets obsolete?
Especially the partition.
I like the 168TSX's out of my 300WSM. That's what I use.
If you like Hornady/Nosler use them. Who cares, as long as they work for you and your situation?
Especially the partition.
I like the 168TSX's out of my 300WSM. That's what I use.
If you like Hornady/Nosler use them. Who cares, as long as they work for you and your situation?
Can't we all agree that the TSX pretty much made any and all big game rifle bullets obsolete?
Especially the partition.
I like the 168TSX's out of my 300WSM. That's what I use.
If you like Hornady/Nosler use them. Who cares, as long as they work for you and your situation?
Yep patitions dont work!!!!!!!!
Yep patitions dont work!!!!!!!!
Yea, Big Game has adapted to "Standard" Magnums and short heavy lead-based bullets, and now only the combination of Short Magnums and long copper bullets can kill them effectively.
BC Bigbore
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- BC's Peace Country
Really? Wow. It's a damn good thing I retired my inadequate .270 Win. and bought a .270 WSM instead
Now I'd best stop using those unreliable 140gr Accubonds and switch to TSX's instead. Good thing I didn't shoot at one of the bucks I saw or I'd have really been in trouble 
I can give you a sample of one, done this year. My 12 year old shot a Whitetail doe, looked at me and said "I can't believe I missed that" Of course it felt good to tell him he hadn't and that I had watched it fall about 50 yards away. Contrast that to the next one he popped with a 100 grain Ballistic tip with his 2 sisters and myself watching on. Slammed , cratered or KOed would be more descriptive than "popped". That's the kind of thing that made ole Roy's favorite cartridge famous. It's hard to blame the kid when he wants to use the "Blue tips" now.
Granted, one doesn't prove anything, but it fits right into the pattern of the approximately 40 I've shot. I like the TSX, and use it allot, but I like it better with a team of trackers. I'm also tired of PHs not being able to see hits that proved to be perfect, and aiming at shoulders just to see a reaction. When it's time to shoot through something lengthwise, bring on the Barnes. I'll keep searching for the perfect bullet, I wish there was a reliable source of Rhinos.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
The TSX is my #2 "go to" bullet when things have to work, for both the .375 Ultra (300 gr) and the '06 (180 gr). The 380 gr Rhino is my #1 choice in the .375, and the 240 gr Woodleigh is my top choice for the .30/06. Neither the Woodleigh nor the Rhino are economical, but they are the unequivocal choices when things have to work. I do have confidence in the TSX should these bullets not be available.
I don't think the TSX or any of the X family is perfect due to the fact that Barnes makes the depth of the nose cavities the same regardless of bullet weight within caliber. This results in very long shanks in the heavier bullets. The greatest advantage of the heavier weight bullet is that penetration is equal to that of the lighter bullet, at lower velocity, minimizing the chance of failure. If a bullet's shank is too long, the expanded portion of the bullet must be smaller than optimal and smaller expansion means the mass of the bullet has not moved to the nose forward position of the bullet. Thus there is a greater chance that the bullet can swap ends and be deflected during penetration resulting in the loss of straight line penetration. The lighter bullet has equal penetration to the heavy bullet, if it holds together, due to its higher velocity, but the higher velocity can result in bullet failure. This might not matter on a whitetail, pronghorn, or a caribou, but on game that can be dangerous it is a consideration. When I am hunting and there is an expectation of running into a bear I will use the TSX, because they shoot flat, are accurate, and hold together. But when I am carrying a rifle for bear work, which can be up close and personal, I'll use the Rhinos and Woodleighs if I have them.
I shoot a lot of Hornady bullets throughout the year, but they don't compete with the Nosler BT/AT for accuracy in my rifles. When it comes to performance in game I doubt if there is much difference bullet for bullet between the Basllistic Tips or the InterLoks. I use my .375 for nearly everything, and my light to medium game load is a 260 gr Nosler BT (I have a few left) loaded to 2600 fps. When those are gone I'll switch to AB's but will probably stay with the reduced load.
I don't think the TSX or any of the X family is perfect due to the fact that Barnes makes the depth of the nose cavities the same regardless of bullet weight within caliber. This results in very long shanks in the heavier bullets. The greatest advantage of the heavier weight bullet is that penetration is equal to that of the lighter bullet, at lower velocity, minimizing the chance of failure. If a bullet's shank is too long, the expanded portion of the bullet must be smaller than optimal and smaller expansion means the mass of the bullet has not moved to the nose forward position of the bullet. Thus there is a greater chance that the bullet can swap ends and be deflected during penetration resulting in the loss of straight line penetration. The lighter bullet has equal penetration to the heavy bullet, if it holds together, due to its higher velocity, but the higher velocity can result in bullet failure. This might not matter on a whitetail, pronghorn, or a caribou, but on game that can be dangerous it is a consideration. When I am hunting and there is an expectation of running into a bear I will use the TSX, because they shoot flat, are accurate, and hold together. But when I am carrying a rifle for bear work, which can be up close and personal, I'll use the Rhinos and Woodleighs if I have them.
I shoot a lot of Hornady bullets throughout the year, but they don't compete with the Nosler BT/AT for accuracy in my rifles. When it comes to performance in game I doubt if there is much difference bullet for bullet between the Basllistic Tips or the InterLoks. I use my .375 for nearly everything, and my light to medium game load is a 260 gr Nosler BT (I have a few left) loaded to 2600 fps. When those are gone I'll switch to AB's but will probably stay with the reduced load.
Can't we all agree that the TSX pretty much made any and all big game rifle bullets obsolete?
Especially the partition.
No,
No,No,No!! I have not shot enough game with the TSX to give a statistical opinion, but 3 animals all fell within a few yards of where they were standing when shot. The TSX is also quite accurate (compared to past "X" designs) I have not recovered one yet either. I have now shot 6 animals with the Accubonds, and none of those have made it more than 20 yards or so, including a muley at 602 lasered yards. I have shot over 100 animals with the Nosler Partition, and the greatest distance covered by any animal shot with these went about 80 yards, but was dead on it's feet. Most either fell where they stood or went 10-25 yards and collapsed. I guess what I am trying to say is, the TSX appears to be a fine bullet, and probably is the trend of the future as lead is increasingly frowned upon because of environmental/health concerns. But it is not the cure all for lousy shot placement, iffy shots or one shot a year "hunters". (Nor is the Partition, Accubond, Interbond, A-Frame, etc, etc) Those who regularly and successfully take game with the standard offerings should carry on, realizing That shot placement is always the #1 factor in quick, humane kills on a game animal. That being said, if I am in a situation in which heavy bone is part of the penetration picture, I will Always opt for the Premium bullet. That is why I use them for everything....you never know when the presentation will require that extra insurance. Regards, Eagleye
Honestly - i think you guys are missing the point a little.
The TSX has some unique properties. If used properly it opens the door to some interesting uses. For example - my 168 grain tripleshocks hit like 180 grain partitions out of my 30-06 - but i get better velocity, flatter trajectory and longer range than I would out of a 180 partition. So it allows me to 'upgun' the 30-06 very effectively.
It also penetrates better - it's one of the few bullets that does NOT lose penetration characteristics with higher velocity impacts. Most bullets will penetrate LESS with higher speed, but the x does not. So high speed shooters may be able to make use of that.
If you use it where it's strengths are maximized - it's outstanding and will give you a chance to increase performance. In some cases, other bullets have characteristics that are better suited to other designs. Will you get a big huge benefit in a 45-70 over some other bullet choices? Probably not.
Its like arguing if a scope or bead sights are better - are you hunting moose or ducks? If you know what the bullet can do and use it where appropriate, you'll be most pleased with the results. If you just use it because someone told you to, it'll likely still work just fine, but possibly no better than (or in some cases worse than) other choices.
The TSX has some unique properties. If used properly it opens the door to some interesting uses. For example - my 168 grain tripleshocks hit like 180 grain partitions out of my 30-06 - but i get better velocity, flatter trajectory and longer range than I would out of a 180 partition. So it allows me to 'upgun' the 30-06 very effectively.
It also penetrates better - it's one of the few bullets that does NOT lose penetration characteristics with higher velocity impacts. Most bullets will penetrate LESS with higher speed, but the x does not. So high speed shooters may be able to make use of that.
If you use it where it's strengths are maximized - it's outstanding and will give you a chance to increase performance. In some cases, other bullets have characteristics that are better suited to other designs. Will you get a big huge benefit in a 45-70 over some other bullet choices? Probably not.
Its like arguing if a scope or bead sights are better - are you hunting moose or ducks? If you know what the bullet can do and use it where appropriate, you'll be most pleased with the results. If you just use it because someone told you to, it'll likely still work just fine, but possibly no better than (or in some cases worse than) other choices.
This was starting to remind me of the big "Matchking Debate" from about 5 yrs ago on A.R.except this is much more polite.I think Gate and Tbart were in on that one too.
I seriously have never tried TSX bullets.But hey there's time.Strange thing tho if I ever have a major Fubar on an animal it's always with premium bullets.
Rich
I seriously have never tried TSX bullets.But hey there's time.Strange thing tho if I ever have a major Fubar on an animal
it's always with premium bullets.Rich
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Foxer, I don't know if you remember seeing the post, but a few years ago I tested 3 bullets, a 270 gr and 300 gr X and a 380 gr Rhino fired from my .375. The velocity was 2850, 2600, and 2300 respectively. The penetration of all 3 bullets was identical at 32". The wound volume of the 270 and 300 gr bullets was also identical, not surprising in that the expanded diameter of these two bullets was .72"; the petals broke off both bullets leaving the shank with a small flat and thin expanded section at the nose. The long shank of the 300 gr. had begun to bend, the shorter 270 gr shank had not. The 380 gr Rhino bullet had not lost any significant weight, expanded to .92", and had easily double the wound volume of the X's, despite being hundreds of fps slower. I won't argue the penetration advantage of the 270 gr X against the 270 gr Hornady as I believe the test is only relevant between bullets of similar construction, and I don't load non-bonded bullets beyond 2600.
From this experiment I was able to draw a number of conclusions. The frontal area of the bullet has more effect on wound volume than does velocity. Penetration is dependent upon the bullet remaining intact. In bullets of similar construction, the momentum of a heavier bullet makes up for the velocity of a lighter bullet resulting in equal penetration when both bullets are fired from the same cartridge at equal pressure into the same medium. The higher the impact velocity, the greater the chance of a bullet failing. The longer the shank, the greater the chance of bending and the less likely it will penetrate in a straight line. Ideally the shank of an expanding bullet will not exceed 1.5 calibers in length.
As it turned out, when I went to Africa my own rifle stayed home and I used a .375 H&H and a .500 NE double. I have a .510 570 gr X recovered from my buffalo that is text book. That bullet penetrated about 40" quartering back from the shoulder, it was found under skin behind the ribs on the off side. The impact velocity of this bullet was in the order of 2100 fps.
Based on the bullet recovered from the buffalo and my test, I believe that like any other bullet, when the X has an impact velocity between 2000 and 2500 fps, it will demonstrate its best performance on game. Having said that, I also believe that `when the X bullet has an impact velocity above 2500 fps, although not ideal, it will tend to out perform lead core bullets with high impact velocities on heavy game.
From this experiment I was able to draw a number of conclusions. The frontal area of the bullet has more effect on wound volume than does velocity. Penetration is dependent upon the bullet remaining intact. In bullets of similar construction, the momentum of a heavier bullet makes up for the velocity of a lighter bullet resulting in equal penetration when both bullets are fired from the same cartridge at equal pressure into the same medium. The higher the impact velocity, the greater the chance of a bullet failing. The longer the shank, the greater the chance of bending and the less likely it will penetrate in a straight line. Ideally the shank of an expanding bullet will not exceed 1.5 calibers in length.
As it turned out, when I went to Africa my own rifle stayed home and I used a .375 H&H and a .500 NE double. I have a .510 570 gr X recovered from my buffalo that is text book. That bullet penetrated about 40" quartering back from the shoulder, it was found under skin behind the ribs on the off side. The impact velocity of this bullet was in the order of 2100 fps.
Based on the bullet recovered from the buffalo and my test, I believe that like any other bullet, when the X has an impact velocity between 2000 and 2500 fps, it will demonstrate its best performance on game. Having said that, I also believe that `when the X bullet has an impact velocity above 2500 fps, although not ideal, it will tend to out perform lead core bullets with high impact velocities on heavy game.
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- Location
- Central; Alberta
I hate to be the one who prolongs this post, but I cannot be more dissapointed with the performance of the TSX on DEER sized game. I would not hesitate to use it on larger critters if using a 264-280 cal Rifle. In my 270 WSM I took 3 WT deer, 2 with very accurate stots through shoulders angling though lungs, and both travelled about 100 yards. I am not used to this type of performance with NP, Interlocks, GK's Grand Slams or any other brands I have used. the other doe had a couple periferal hits due to underestimating leads on running shot, but follow ups were well placed and said deer was very hard to put down. I would say wound channels were 50% less than using NP's.
SO, IMHO deer are not armour plated animals, and I want a bullet that will perform well under a lot of the DEER hunting conditions I face, IE stort/long shots, running shots, angling shots ect, sometimes not always perfectly placed. I want a bullet that gives maximum shock to the system, sprays some metal around but can still penetrate enough. In this regimen the TSX does not fit MY criteria. If it works for you, thats great, but do not quote the holier than thou mantra of "premium bullets" on deer,
That being said, The TSX has redeeming qualities that have been well documented by the more experienced and mature members of CGN
SO, IMHO deer are not armour plated animals, and I want a bullet that will perform well under a lot of the DEER hunting conditions I face, IE stort/long shots, running shots, angling shots ect, sometimes not always perfectly placed. I want a bullet that gives maximum shock to the system, sprays some metal around but can still penetrate enough. In this regimen the TSX does not fit MY criteria. If it works for you, thats great, but do not quote the holier than thou mantra of "premium bullets" on deer,
That being said, The TSX has redeeming qualities that have been well documented by the more experienced and mature members of CGN
Makes sense. Probably the cap is somewhere around 3000 fps - the tech's at barnes tell me that after that you can expect to lose petals even with the current batch of tsx's. I guess then you'd want to be into something like a tbbc or other bullet.
I've noticed that at higher impact speeds within your posted range (say around 2800 fps) the x does a great job of giving a good wound channel without excessive damage, especially on lighter deer. I like it for that reason too.
Sounds like the TSX.
Any angle you want. Just make sure that the bullet is aimed at the vitals, and it will get there, regardless of how much deer is in it's way.
Wrong again Gatehouse, the thread started to go downill when you stated that I was too cheap to spend another $10 to $100 on premium ammo. Before that, it was quite civil. I even stated that although I had "limited" experiecence with the TSX bullets, I still had to prove them with my own eyes, Bartell chimed in and it moved downward from there on. I do use TSX bullets as a recommendation from a friend And I don't have a problem spending the extra cash....they just haven't proven themselves to me yet. Oh and BTW, bang flop means just that, an animal that walks or runs yet another 20-40 yards, isn't bang flop. OK, it's bang walk....flop/
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In neither post did Bartell or I even refer to you. Read the quote above. I said some people (not gitrdun) Some people. Many, many people have complained about the price of Barnes bullets on this and other websites. IN fact, my post was directly under ben hunchaks post, and he also mentioned the cost of premium bullets. If I wanted to refer directly to you, I would have quoted you.
I didn't use the term "cheap" I said that the added cost was a large expense to some people, just not me. You must have some sort of complex (or maybe the shoe fits?) to believe that every time someone posts it's all about you.
If it wasn't part of your thought process when selecting a bullet, you wouldn't have mentioned it.
I'm pretty sure I know what it means, which is why I made the distinction when I posted this:
and this:
Clearly, comprehension is is an issue here.
And the bottom line is that going on a foul mouthed rant is still a childish thing for you to do.
- Location
- Central; Alberta
Sounds like the TSX.
Any angle you want. Just make sure that the bullet is aimed at the vitals, and it will get there, regardless of how much deer is in it's way.
This issue here Ghut, is that I found the TSX did not do enough while in the animal, with poor tissue damage and minimal "shock" effect on the game taken. I really could care less about the penetration of TSX bullets, as all bullets I have used have adequate penetration on deer, and superior killing power as compared to the TSX.
