Want a 45-70, best options?

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platnumbob

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I have recently acquired a desire to get a 45-70 lever gun but unfortunately know little about them. The gun would be primarily for hunting in the bush but also for some plinking. I note that there are a number of pretty short variants out there - Marlin having one of those. In terms of ballistics and bullet drop, what is the sweet spot for these guns to maintain effective hunting ranges? For hunts at longer ranges I will always have my 6.5cm rifle, but I don't want a gun that drops like a rock after 100 yards either. That does not permit confidence on a game animal in my experience.

I am just looking for some guidance on if there are any standouts as to the best brand/models and barrel length.

Thanks!
 
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Unless you handload remember that the 30-30 killed and buried the 45-70 as a hunting cartridge.
 
To ask a 45-70 for performance much past 100y means some practice and a good understanding of the trajectory of your particular ammunition. And accurate distance estimation.

If you want to be comfortable much past 100y 45-70 might not be the cartridge you want.
 
There is a guy on the EE selling a new high grade and a new standard grade Browning 1886 carbine for $2100 each.Buy one of these and never look back.The Browning 1886 is basically the best replica 1886 available and the carbine version is easier to carry than the rifle being a bit lighter .That said I have the rifle version and I love it even though it is heavy I m use to carrying Sharps rifles and muzzleloaders so I m use to the weight.If you keep your shots under 150 yards the 45/70 will do it’s job,Every deer I killed with the 45/70 were one shot kills
 
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I'm also currently looking for either a 45-70 or 444M for the same purposes (dense brush gun).

I'm not familiar with either Cal, but my train of thought from my research here and elsewhere is, either Cal would be sufficient to the 50- 150yrd range within the shooters capacity/confidence. Probably something in the 18-1/2" to 20" barrel length for ease of maneuverability for my purposes.

Marlin seems to be the go-to for many, but I may go the Henry route in as at least I'll be getting a new unit at roughly the same cost as current used Marlins on the EE...
 
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45-70 is my main hunting cartridge for big game in brush. I prefer a short barrel ( mines 16.25") I've killed elk, deer, moose, bear with mine. I hunt with peeps/ ghost ring or red dot. I shoot hard cast handloads at 1600fps and sero at around 158yds. This puts my poi at +3@50 +4@100, -1@150 and -7.5@200....interesting my 175 yd drop is -2.5
So basically in the 15 yds between 175 &200 it drops 5" making this a truly shorter range gun. It sure anchors critters though. If your looking for flat out killing things at bow range this is the caliber for you. Short trapper length guns are my favorite for this purpose. The 45-70 looses very minimal fps/ 1"barrel loss. My brothers 22" barrel shoots my same load at only 30fps faster than my 16.25" barrel. Sight radius is the reason the cowboys have longer barrels but for 100-175yd accuracy a 16"+the action length radius is more than plenty for hunting accuracy.
The 45-70 is truly a reloaders round as factory fodder is crazy expensive if you can find it right now. With handloading I can keep my hunting rounds to around .58$/ round...light plinking loads can be made for under .40$/ round... good luck even coming close to that using factory ammo. My favorite rifles are the marlin offerings but henry makes a decent rifle as well. Imo the 22-26" barrel rifles are great for more target work or stand hunting where the barrel length is no hindrance. For a walking rifle I highly recommend the 16-18" lengths as they are just so much more handy and performance wise you give up very little.
Ps plinking loads made with pistol powders such as trail boss, red dot, and unique are amazing fun and light on the shoulder and given a high enough rear sight elevation can be used all the way out to 1k. Check out some of sagebrush longshots on YouTube. Those guys and their big 45-70s are pure awesome...
 
Umm... interesting comments so far. If I can rely on the 45-70 for 150 yards and under I would happy for my purposes. If I am hunting in more open areas requiring 200-300 yard shots my 6.5cm has always done the job. I have just found it too long, heavy and slow for bush carry. Plus the extra bang of the 45-70 would be great for elk opportunities (and looks fun!).

Is an 18.5 barrel (I think that is what is on alot of the Marlins) enough or does that cause too much velocity loss?
 
obsessed1b said:
45-70 is my main hunting cartridge for big game in brush. I prefer a short barrel ( mines 16.25") I've killed elk, deer, moose, bear with mine. I hunt with peeps/ ghost ring or red dot. I shoot hard cast handloads at 1600fps and sero at around 158yds. This puts my poi at +3@50 +4@100, -1@150 and -7.5@200....interesting my 175 yd drop is -2.5
So basically in the 15 yds between 175 &200 it drops 5" making this a truly shorter range gun. It sure anchors critters though. If your looking for flat out killing things at bow range this is the caliber for you. Short trapper length guns are my favorite for this purpose. The 45-70 looses very minimal fps/ 1"barrel loss. My brothers 22" barrel shoots my same load at only 30fps faster than my 16.25" barrel. Sight radius is the reason the cowboys have longer barrels but for 100-175yd accuracy a 16"+the action length radius is more than plenty for hunting accuracy.
The 45-70 is truly a reloaders round as factory fodder is crazy expensive if you can find it right now. With handloading I can keep my hunting rounds to around .58$/ round...light plinking loads can be made for under .40$/ round... good luck even coming close to that using factory ammo. My favorite rifles are the marlin offerings but henry makes a decent rifle as well. Imo the 22-26" barrel rifles are great for more target work or stand hunting where the barrel length is no hindrance. For a walking rifle I highly recommend the 16-18" lengths as they are just so much more handy and performance wise you give up very little.
Ps plinking loads made with pistol powders such as trail boss, red dot, and unique are amazing fun and light on the shoulder and given a high enough rear sight elevation can be used all the way out to 1k. Check out some of sagebrush longshots on YouTube. Those guys and their big 45-70s are pure awesome...
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This was very informative re: bullet drop and zero. Thanks!
 
Nothing says 45-70 like a Marlin 1895. Wait a few more months and see what the new Ruger-made Marlins produce in the new year. The 1895 is the first model coming off the assembly line.
 
Is an 18.5 barrel (I think that is what is on alot of the Marlins) enough or does that cause too much velocity loss?[/QUOTE]

The 45-70 is one of those rounds that barrel.length change equates to minimal vel loss/ gain. You will find the shorter barrel results in more unburned powder. But mag primers may solve that issue. I'm experimenting with that exact issue right now. The 45-70 can be loaded from mild to wild. In my experience and penetration tests 1600fps with a 405gr is the sweet spot for penetration vs recoil level. 1700-2200fps actually recoil harder yet penetrate less. It also doesnt really give any real world drops advantage out to 175-200yds. And using irons in thick brush most will never shoot past that anyways. Personal opinion for brush hunting 16-18" is about perfect.

For the 45-70 you have to remove the idea that velocity is king. Unlike cartridges that rely on expansion and hydrostatic shock to kill the 45-70 relies on a big hole on both sides leaking lots of blood and heavy bullets breaking big bones. Velocity means little as the bc of these huge bullets is so low anything past 200 needs real skill for good shot placement and inside that range the difference from an inch or two of drop is kinda irrelevant. Generally speaking if you can get a 405gr bullet going 1300pfs you can kill anything on the planet out to whatever range you can accurately place shots. If you drive that same bullet much past 1600fps your penetration starts to drop off and recoil starts to get into the very uncomfortable levels.. the old girl is really nothing like newer cartridges and its more like an arrow than bullet in how it kills. Make no mistake though those big slugs make huge holes in things.. inside of 200yds speed above 1300-1600fps doesnt give any real advantage..adding or losing 50-100fps is a mute point. This is not a 300wm or 257 wetherby mag. It is a freight train that once its moving it takes a lot of mass to stop it.
My 405 gr loads penetrate 12milk jugs full of water at 15yds. This past fall I shot it into a dirt berm at 80 yds it penetrated 13.5" into clay. And held 95% of it weight. It will penetrate a moose full length no question.
 
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As noted above, the 45-70 can be loaded from mild to wild. In my experience, it is a great do-it-all calibre for close range only (100 m). Anymore and you're dealing with a rainbow trajectory and there are way better choices for reaching out. I really enjoy my Henry all-steel carbine with 18.4 inch barrel--sturdy and lightweight.
 
G’day,

I think there is a commercial out there…..”those who like ‘em, like em a lot”

I claim no expertise aside from practical use, and have had several and keep a few, all Marlins.

I have an 1895 ABL sporting a vortex 2-4, and my has an 1895 SBL with the ghost ring sights. We have them as we frequent the land and plan to leave at the top of the food chain, and these fit the bill for portability, functionality and ability to stop stuff. I also use mine for hunting for the same purposes, as it is reliable and accurate.

I have used the 1895 with the 22 inch barrel and the 1895G, (guide gun) with the 18.5 and kept the a/n as they have the best of both with the pistol grip stock, 18.5 barrel and full length mag, and they fit the bill.

I will admit I have not tested others manufacturers as these worked extremely well and I have found them to be extremely accurate within their limits so had no need to explore elsewhere.

They are good well made firearms and easy to carry either slung or in hand, and unless you are bench shooting you are pressing it to work offhand or supported beyond 200yds, in my experience they are practical to 100-150yds.

With my setup I have been able to obtain great accuracy using factory loads of Winchester 300 gr and Hornady 325 in these limits.

I have used the HSM bear load, and afterwards asked myself why……….., I can get the same end without the concussion…….

I am probably not saying anything others haven’t, and perhaps less, but figured I would add my thoughts to fuel your decision making.

Cheers




,
 
vagrantviking said:
To ask a 45-70 for performance much past 100y means some practice and a good understanding of the trajectory of your particular ammunition. And accurate distance estimation.

If you want to be comfortable much past 100y 45-70 might not be the cartridge you want.
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the ftx and gmx raised the 100 to 200 meters easily.
 
I'd pick the Marlin 1895 and the Ruger #1 in that order. The Winchesters are really nice rifles but if you ever decide to scope it, you'll wish you had the Marlin. The Marlins are also very easy to disassemble for cleaning.

The .45-70 is great, as long as you are a handloader.

Chris.
 
I have owned Marlin, Rossi and Henry, I still have my Henry and of those choices I like my Henry, I prefer tube loading but Henry's now also have the option of a side gate. There are other more expensive options that may be better Winchester Browning and the replicas, just more money than I will spend.
 
platnumbob said:
With all of the good info on there I think I am now leaning towards a Marlin 1895 SBL - thanks all!
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The 1895 with the regular 22" barrel and pistol grip stock is much easier to control that the shorter "Guide Gun" model. I also find the shorter barrel versions really want to flip-up with heavy loads which also can prevent someone from shooting them well.

For hunting I personally think the 45-70 with modern handloads to be a 200 yard rifle. With the Hornady 325 FTX bullet you may be able to wring another 30-40 yards out of it.
 
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