The return to the 9mm Luger for police in Canada
- Thread starter 1ABNDT
- Start date
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I am just an enthusiast with no prior experience in these matters, but I wish to ask this folks:
Will conservation officers follow as well in this move from the 40 Smith to the 9mm?
Or is that extra bit of diameter and energy something more useful upon dangerous or dispatching wildlife?
AFAIK Alberta COs still carry a 40, and in Ontario they used to issue a 45 ACP pistol.
Curious......
Will conservation officers follow as well in this move from the 40 Smith to the 9mm?
Or is that extra bit of diameter and energy something more useful upon dangerous or dispatching wildlife?
AFAIK Alberta COs still carry a 40, and in Ontario they used to issue a 45 ACP pistol.
Curious......
i like mine very well. agency was talking about getting us a g45 i do not know were they are with it or not but is one of my favourite to shoot so far ...
easyrider604
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Greater Vancouver, BC
Police departments use or at least, used a lot of "remanufactured" ammo.
9 years ago I was negotiating to buy an ammo remanufacturing company. The Seller said their major customers were police departments and target ranges.
Yes, I spoke to two conservation officers that used to launch a boat at my sailing club; both were not overly happy about the 9mm switch. Our local police force is not switching. I am pretty sure it is budget, and one sargent told me that because other forces are switching, they will buy up a bunch of these .40s and spare parts, and keep them running for the foreseeable future. Not a bad way to think I figure.
Conservation officers over here in BC carry a glock 20 ( 10mm )
I have heard that alot of police and armoured car guards have trouble trying to qualify with the .40, too much recoil I guess ?
I've seen some of this stuff for training days, Centaure 124gr remanufactured. Quals usually shot with last years duty ammo.
- Location
- Blaster land, Okanagan BC
From what I understand it’s what the BC CO’s carry, iirc one of them killed a wounded grizzly with his 10mm glock a year or two back when the bear attacked him.
If the CO's do they practice and qualify with the .40cal. None of our CO's use the 10MM. I wish they did. I own a GP-100 in 10MM. Performance wise it is about the same as a .357mag.
What our police use has more to do with budgets than performance. Any improvement the 9MM bullet has had in construction over the years also has been applied to the 40cal.
A good friend of mine spent his career with several California Agencies, primarily as a homicide detective. Now retired, he carries a 40 cal. Glock. He based his decisions on his observations while attending autopsies. Maybe there is a message there...or not.
Take Care
Bob
Back in 1995 I was in Training unit Transition team
from revolvers to semi autos for my large police service .
I suggested they go with the Glock 17 in 9 MM.
as it would be much easier for the average officer to train and qualify on
than the heavier recoil 40 S &W .
Remember Most new police have never fired a handgun never mind a heavier recoil 40 cal.
I later found a lot of officers who were not "gun" people had trouble qualifying with the 40 cal.
Unfortunately most officers only qualify once a year .
I told my bosses that 9 mm with the 147 Grain HP
would have been a better choice as
it is better to hit the bad guy with 3 (or more ) than miss him with 6 .
but as I was only a Constable , so of course the brass didn't listen to me .
the 40 cal S & W was trending in police world then.
Looks like the world is round.
from revolvers to semi autos for my large police service .
I suggested they go with the Glock 17 in 9 MM.
as it would be much easier for the average officer to train and qualify on
than the heavier recoil 40 S &W .
Remember Most new police have never fired a handgun never mind a heavier recoil 40 cal.
I later found a lot of officers who were not "gun" people had trouble qualifying with the 40 cal.
Unfortunately most officers only qualify once a year .
I told my bosses that 9 mm with the 147 Grain HP
would have been a better choice as
it is better to hit the bad guy with 3 (or more ) than miss him with 6 .
but as I was only a Constable , so of course the brass didn't listen to me .
the 40 cal S & W was trending in police world then.
Looks like the world is round.
Side question about training for law enforcement: why is it that the RCMP and other forces don't offer training improvement suggestions when they see a bad grip and mediocre shooting during qualifying?
Long story short, I came across an RCMP officer using the "cup & saucer" grip with his semi auto and he was shooting abysmally. When I fixed his grip, his groups improved dramatically. He said he trained on revolvers and was never shown what to do when given a semi auto - even though he had been shooting a semi auto for years - badly.
I have gone through similar situations with other members and talked to an RCMP BFI about it. RCMP policy according to him was the officers don't get correction unless they fail qualification and need remediation. Members of local municipal forces seem to be in the same boat. It annoys me when it literally takes me a few minutes to help them and they see dramatic improvements on the target, but they don't get that from their own dept. The last two officers I helped were so grateful, they gave me their names, and asked me when I go to that range so we could meet up in the future.
Long story short, I came across an RCMP officer using the "cup & saucer" grip with his semi auto and he was shooting abysmally. When I fixed his grip, his groups improved dramatically. He said he trained on revolvers and was never shown what to do when given a semi auto - even though he had been shooting a semi auto for years - badly.
I have gone through similar situations with other members and talked to an RCMP BFI about it. RCMP policy according to him was the officers don't get correction unless they fail qualification and need remediation. Members of local municipal forces seem to be in the same boat. It annoys me when it literally takes me a few minutes to help them and they see dramatic improvements on the target, but they don't get that from their own dept. The last two officers I helped were so grateful, they gave me their names, and asked me when I go to that range so we could meet up in the future.
9mm can work on brown bear. it is all depending on training, shooting and of course situation. no everybody can shoot properly a 357 or a 44 mag lol ..
Don't take it too hard brother, they don't listen to Staff Sergeants either !
I can remember back in the ole wheel gun days posters in police ranges showing different poi with associated grip corrections. Never saw any grip posters for pistols. I imagine the grip instruction is emphasized during ab initio at OPC but I don't remember UOF instructors doing a lot of that during qualifications. Hopefully Boltgun notices this thread and can fill in the details.
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I don't know squat about CO work, but at a guess any calibre of handgun is only an emergency option for an adequate long gun.
maybe
Our range was used for training, pails of brand new 40 brass.
