Is the WK/MCR Factory Default Gas Setting Adverse Mode?

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Ustauk

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Some firearms, like the Type 81, have an adverse mode for their gas system, allowing increased gas into the system, in addition to the normal setting for their gas system. This allows the firearm to cycle through extremely poor ammo or work through adverse environmental conditions like buildup in the action or extreme cold changing the friction between components. One does not normally leave a firearm on this setting because it will cause extra stress to and potentially early failure of the firearm's component parts.

The WK and its descendant, the MCR, were both designed as inexpensive work horses, to work through the extremes of the Canadian climate and the sometimes questionable ammunition available here. They were both designed to use a lot of gas in their recoil system to accommodate these factors. However, the WK, and to a somewhat lesser extent, the MCR, have both been noted to have dependability problems, related to component failure.

Would it be fair to say the designers of the WK and MCR went too far and placed their firearms in a permanent adverse/fouled gas system mode? One wonders if even a reliable com-bloc firearm like a Type 81 may start having component failures if run in adverse mode at all times. If being in permanent adverse mode is causing dependability problems with the firearms, would it make sense for manufacturers of the WK and MCR to offer a two setting adjustable gas block, with one setting being the current adverse setting, and the other providing a gentler mode of operation? They could offer this as an aftermarket part for existing users, but it could be included going forward in new production to help increase dependability. Whatever the additional cost for a simple two stage gas block, it is likely the purchasers will be willing to part with the extra funds to get increased reliability in their firearms.

Is this idea plausible, or out to lunch? Please post your feedback on it. Thank you!
 
"Adverse" mode is in my experience a military term used to indicate when a gun is intentionally overgassed. There seems to be no question the WK is overgassed, but I don't believe it was intentional. You can follow the design rationale of the WK when it was first launched in this thread:
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1678142-Wolverine-s-WK180-C

It is my recollection that when the WK was announced it was to be made with a mid-length gas system. The decision to go to a carbide system was made for convenience and economy reasons after a modest amount of testing. As soon as I heard about the choice I lost interest in the product, because it struck me as a very poor design decision.
 
45C said:
What about the Robinson Arms XCR-L Ajustabke GB?
Could something like that work?
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True North Arms will be releasing a full adjustable gas block again, following some design refinements. I was thinking the manufacturers should have a simpler normal/adverse two setting block for new production, and for purchase, but that's just my opinion.
 
It's not hard to drill and tap a set screw into the side of the gas block. I used an #8-32 and it made quite a difference.
Added a Miculek brake along with a trigger tech trigger, I can shoot quick doubles much more accurately.
Gas block still makes my left hand filthy but no worse than before I modded it.
 
the radium king said:
make one?

drill hole.

tap hole.

install set screw.

adjust.

here's a link w pics ...

https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.nz/f15/diy-adjustable-gas-block-14902/
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Rust said:
It's not hard to drill and tap a set screw into the side of the gas block. I used an #8-32 and it made quite a difference.
Added a Miculek brake along with a trigger tech trigger, I can shoot quick doubles much more accurately.
Gas block still makes my left hand filthy but no worse than before I modded it.
Click to expand...

Great suggestions for those who are handy, thanks!

It would be nice if the original manufacturers would provide the option to use less gas to improve the firearm's longevity, but in the meant time do-it-yourself solutions, and hopefully the return of the TNA adjustable gas block will have to do..

A question for those who have both the MCR and WK; is the gas port a smaller on the MCR? I'm wondering if it is a smaller and thus leaves the rifle less over gassed then the WK that along with increased QA may be the reason why the MCR has less issues reported then the WK.
 
If 18.6" mid gas barrels were more available, I think there would be a market if properly advertised to the WK/WS owners.

I bought a barrel and mid length rod from 3rd echelon, made a huge difference in recoil. No gas port hole mods necessary.

Another good option, but a little more money is a barrel from ATRS. They keep it carbine, but size the gas port hole properly. I'll be going with an ATRS barrel for my Lynx build.
 
so, my understanding is that the gas ports on barrels typically get smaller the closer you get to the chamber, to account for the fact the gas has more energy closer to combustion (which is why typically you would not put a carbine-length gas system on an 18" barrel as you are bleeding off a bunch of much needed energy too soon). however, within that there is some variety, and beyond that a custom barrel can provide whatever gas port size you want. so, presumably a spec run of barrels for a wk or mcr would have any gas port size requested (and seemingly too big a port in this case). my ibi 6.5G mid-length barrel could have a 0.076" or a 0.085" gas port (both within the typical spec for a mid-length barrel).

beyond that, the gas block can be a fixed size or adjustable. note that tna sells an x39-specific gas block which i presume lets a bit more gas through than a 556 because the x39 is a lower pressure round (but could be very wrong here).

finally, thoughts to the difference between a gas gun and a piston gun. presume piston has a bit more friction so needs a bit more gas. i think also that a piston can act on the barrel such that you would want a heavy barrel profile between gas block and receiver, so to keep weight down a carbine-length system might be best.

given the choice of going to a longer gas system (mid- or rifle- length hbar barrel, new piston) or just turning down the gas on your carbine-length system (a set screw, or an adj gas block depending on skillz) i'd go with the latter but the former seems to work quite well as per mr d.
 
I think the carbine vs mid-length conversation is kinda overdone and focusing on something that doesn't really matter all that much.

Take a WK/WS 180 with a carbine length and mid length, shoot them both, and I'm pretty sure 99% of us will see little to no functional difference between the two.

The only difference I can see is parts wear & tear which with well made parts isn't that big of a deal. If I had the choice between the two I'd go mid-length, but as someone who's WKs put 20,000 rounds of centrefire down range each year it's really not been a problem.
 
FraserGreen said:
I think the carbine vs mid-length conversation is kinda overdone and focusing on something that doesn't really matter all that much.

Take a WK/WS 180 with a carbine length and mid length, shoot them both, and I'm pretty sure 99% of us will see little to no functional difference between the two.

The only difference I can see is parts wear & tear which with well made parts isn't that big of a deal. If I had the choice between the two I'd go mid-length, but as someone who's WKs put 20,000 rounds of centrefire down range each year it's really not been a problem.
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Any tips on finding a parts kit?
 
Firas said:
Any tips on finding a parts kit?
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Kodiak Defence, True North Arms and other companies sell spare parts. Kodiak will replace all parts on warranty.

KD will often if you have a couple breaks send you an extra spare part to save you time in the future.
 
A new gas plug (threaded piece with 4 holes in the end, the one you use a socket or wrench on for gas system disassembly) could possibly be a solution as well, if the gas is forced to flow through smaller holes than the original 4 would that reduce the backwards force? I've already shown the part to a machinist and he assured me it would be very easy to create, I've asked him to make one and to drill the holes roughly half their original size but otherwise the keep the part dimensions identical, and we'll open up the holes as needed until reaching reliable feeding
 
Regulate said:
A new gas plug (threaded piece with 4 holes in the end, the one you use a socket or wrench on for gas system disassembly) could possibly be a solution as well, if the gas is forced to flow through smaller holes than the original 4 would that reduce the backwards force? I've already shown the part to a machinist and he assured me it would be very easy to create, I've asked him to make one and to drill the holes roughly half their original size but otherwise the keep the part dimensions identical, and we'll open up the holes as needed until reaching reliable feeding
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You're sadly a bit behind KD on this one, they have replaced the gas screw and cup with a Banjo bolt. I've tried it out and it does seem to reduce gas flow somewhat
 
FraserGreen said:
You're sadly a bit behind KD on this one, they have replaced the gas screw and cup with a Banjo bolt. I've tried it out and it does seem to reduce gas flow somewhat
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That's cool, and could potentially help reduce some of the wear on the rifles going forward. Are they offering that as a paid add-on on demand?
 
Thanks Fraser I hadn't seen any info on that yet, I would love to get my hands on one for my MCR whenever they become available. In the mean time I'll ask my machinist to make just the one for my own usage, and hopefully even be able to compare against KD's when released
 
Ustauk said:
That's cool, and could potentially help reduce some of the wear on the rifles going forward. Are they offering that as a paid add-on on demand?
Click to expand...

I suspect that they will probably roll them out with new production rifles, they might also add them to sale. I'd ask Bratwurst he seems to be in comms with them.
 
yes, the idea is that the set screw reduces gas flow - acts as an adjustable obstruction. fully backed-out and gun is as before; as you tighten more and more restriction is introduced, more gas stays behind bullet and less diverted to piston. so, tighten until gun no longer cycles properly (not enough gas) then loosen a bit until it works again. should gun get dirty/cold and need more oomph to cycle, or you start using lower power ammo with less oomph, you can back off a bit to allow more gas through.

https://www.patentsencyclopedia.com/imgfull/20130098235_07
 
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