1911 Expert Advice

ivan said:
Sounds like a bad mag.
With the mag stuff full, it may be swollen slightly causing drag on the trigger bow. Once one round is fired, the swelling goes down and the trigger pull returns to normal.

Try with a new mag and/or try with round in chamber and no mag and/or with only 2 or 3 rounds in the mag you have. If my theory is correct these conditions should not have the heavy trigger pull.

-ivan-
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I just did a test, I noticed no difference in measurements with a empty mag, to a fully loaded mag, to a mag with a round taken out. Measurement were taken right inline where the mag catch notch is.
 
This issue is likely attributed to one of the three disconnector functions.
Have a look at your Kuhnhausen Shop Manual. Pages 13, 14 and 15. Figures 4, 5 and 6.
Might even be as simple as the tension on the disconnector sear spring leg.
Also make sure the sear spring legs are seated in place correctly.
 
Series 70 and 80 Gold Cups had the addition of sear depressor & depressor spring which is not found in regular Government models. I think this was added in attempt to prevent sear bounce because the Gold Cup also has a reduced surface on the hammer where it engages the sear. These parts are shown as part 46 & 47 on the exploded view available on Numrich's website. The sear depressor & depressor spring is impossible to install in the frame without a slave pin, so I've seen the spring "innocently" left out - which caused baffling sear and hammer problems.

Best help I can offer from my keyboard - cheers.
 
^
In a series 80, the firing pin lock plunger and spring is easily installed incorrectly ‘behind’ the firing pin channel where the plunger is supposed to be installed correctly. The plunger would fit in this position and still sit on top of the lock plunger lever, but wouldn’t apply enough leverage to the trigger bar lever.
This improper installation causes the upper plunger shoulder to lock the firing pin forward, can cause a bent firing pin and an unsafe condition setting a round off while chambering and dropping the slide on it.
These mistakes happen with aftermarket, out of spec parts which don’t quite fit properly and can be mistakenly installed in an only way they would fit.
 
I took out the backstrap and safety. It looked like the spring may not have been correctly set. I put it back together and the problem has gone from 100% on first shot to 20%.

The problem is the same with or without a mag inserted.

Mags do not drop free. I am guess rubbing on trigger bow.

Since I prefer to drop the slide when loading a first round with the trigger pulled, so sear is held by the disconnect, there is not a real issue. Doing this eliminates the problem. This is the way i was taught to load a pistol. Nice to see this supported by the Colt book.
 
Your last post reminded me of something else - I found out that if the trigger over travel screw is adjusted for the least amount of trigger movement before the hammer drops, there were inconsistencies with trigger pull weight. In my case, backing off the trigger screw so the trigger has slightly more travel fixed the problem.
 
Jasper Morris said:
Your last post reminded me of something else - I found out that if the trigger over travel screw is adjusted for the least amount of trigger movement before the hammer drops, there were inconsistencies with trigger pull weight. In my case, backing off the trigger screw so the trigger has slightly more travel fixed the problem.
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Thanks. I was looking at that screw. Never had one before. I will give it a quarter turn and see if that makes any difference.
 
marshall said:
Just one mag or all mags, just one, trigger bow could be dragging on a fat mag, but don't sound like it.
Are you real sure that the slide is all the way ahead when released on 1 st round?
Make sure disconnector is free
I have not run into that, could also read a book or two.
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This would be my guess; or maybe on the frame/grips??
 
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Ganderite said:
I took out the backstrap and safety. It looked like the spring may not have been correctly set. I put it back together and the problem has gone from 100% on first shot to 20%.

The problem is the same with or without a mag inserted.

Mags do not drop free. I am guess rubbing on trigger bow.

Since I prefer to drop the slide when loading a first round with the trigger pulled, so sear is held by the disconnect, there is not a real issue. Doing this eliminates the problem. This is the way i was taught to load a pistol. Nice to see this supported by the Colt book.
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Well that better news.

You can remove the mag catch to eliminate it being what may be causing the mag to hang up. If they drop free with it out, its probably the culprit. Problem with 1911s is you never know what people might have done to it.
 
Ganderite said:
I took out the backstrap and safety. It looked like the spring may not have been correctly set. I put it back together and the problem has gone from 100% on first shot to 20%.....
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Some really good input here. Regardless of you using technique to bypass the problem, the trigger reset shouldn't be doing that at all (and the mags should drop free, but it sounds like you know how to fix that one).

The sear spring observation is interesting. I've had them reassembled slightly out of position, too. Changing something with the sear spring made a difference, I'd look more closely here. Do you have a stock sear spring you can swap in?
 
IM0. Whatever’s your problem, it’s got to do with the trigger, disconnector or sear spring.

Try another spring if you have one handy. Say from another 1911 with no issues.
If that doesn’t work, try another disconnector.
If not that, try polishing the trigger bow and it’s matching groove in the frame.
If not, try polishing the disconnector hole.
 
I’m not an expert, just a guy who likes 1911s. Depending on how the gun was treated before you bought it you may have some burrs or damage (or too thick if aftermarket) on the back of the bow causing the engagement of the mating surfaces to react differently in when you set them in different conditions (trigger depressed vs not). It’s also possible that the sear spring is the culprit and not aligned properly by either wear, poor fitting, or poor installation. You may not have a 3lb trigger that’s acting up but a 4.5-5lb trigger that is not engaging properly. According to Vickers/Hackathorn/Wilson on match grade/tuned guns unless it absolutely cannot be help the trigger should always be depressed when the slide is in motion to prevent damage (I don’t know how much damage can actually be caused but those boys have shot/build/broke more 1911 than any of us will ever see).
 
Trigger drag?
Just curious, as it’s good to know for future issues.

Do you consider your issue to be trigger drag?
Thanks
 
rusty2011 said:
Hi Ganderite ..The 1911 Gold Cup is a fine pistol and I have had a few myself.Your problem is a head scratcher for sure .As I recall the series 80 has the firing pin safety block and is located in the left side of the frame and attached to the same pin that holds the hammer.That block is moved by a device referred to as a `birds head``because of the shape, sorry I do not know the tech name that is held by the same pin as the sear and disconnet.Whew..seeing as how the gun is used maybe those parts have been altered as was done sometimes to get rid of the firing pin block.Hope this long winded reply helps.
Dave
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I second this comment, Buy a plate that replaces all the stupid safety mechanisms and this issue is fixed forever.
 
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