I gave them all of the info I included in this thread, as I was inquiring re both the barrel alignment and the 'feeding from some mags' issues on the lower gas setting. Silly me, I was honest with my experience with the rifle, including the successful 'fix' to the light primer strike issue.
M10X-Z experience - the good and the bad. 375 rounds UPDATES POSTS 14, 17, 18, 56, 63
- Thread starter CobraGT
- Start date
I gave them all of the info I included in this thread, as I was inquiring re both the barrel alignment and the 'feeding from some mags' issues on the lower gas setting. Silly me, I was honest with my experience with the rifle, including the successful 'fix' to the light primer strike issue.
I just got a good deal on a new, unfired M10X with the short Handguard and Stainless Gas Plug. I bought it based on positive comments in the FB M10X forum and the Black Bear videos. This relatively new info about the Barrel alignment is troubling to say the least.
How can the Barrel be properly screwed into the steel receiver and still flex such that the deflection is noticeable to the naked eye? I am having trouble wrapping my head around that improbability, although I do not doubt CobraGT or Wolverine's findings. That is some crazy Barrel deflection caused by the Handguard Grub Screw or some other negative interaction of parts!
I will be inspecting my rifle very carefully when it arrives next week and will be contacting M+M immediately if there are issues with the Barrel alignment and/or light Primer strikes. I will be sure to let everyone know my findings and if there are issues, what M+M have to say about it.
I do love a good mystery, so if nothing else the M10X ought to provide plenty of head-scratching entertainment!
How can the Barrel be properly screwed into the steel receiver and still flex such that the deflection is noticeable to the naked eye? I am having trouble wrapping my head around that improbability, although I do not doubt CobraGT or Wolverine's findings. That is some crazy Barrel deflection caused by the Handguard Grub Screw or some other negative interaction of parts!
I will be inspecting my rifle very carefully when it arrives next week and will be contacting M+M immediately if there are issues with the Barrel alignment and/or light Primer strikes. I will be sure to let everyone know my findings and if there are issues, what M+M have to say about it.
I do love a good mystery, so if nothing else the M10X ought to provide plenty of head-scratching entertainment!
Yeah, it was. And what self-respecting design requires an afterthought screw to provide upward Handguard pressure on the underside of the Barrel in order to increase accuracy? Most rifle designs take pains to eliminate any and all such contact so as to be free-floated!
The dichotomy between the enthusiastically positive reviews and the disappointing reality of the M10X is unexplained. Either the product is inconsistent and the reviewers are getting good examples, or there us some shilling going on. I suspect the former, based on North Sylva's reported "2 or 3% warranty return rate", as quoted in one of the BlackBear videos. I'm guessing that the failure rate is somewhat higher, with many owners simply tolerating ammo and/or magazine sensitivity and other "quirks" such as the self-dissasembling Charging Handles.
So chances are, we have a rifle with wildly-inconsistent (or nonexistent) pre-shipment QC, resulting in numerous reliability failures throughout the fleet at an unknown (but evidently significant) rate. And then we have M+M's unseemly abandonment of a customer for warranty work to resolve poor Barrel alignment, just because he snipped a few coils off of his Firing Pin Spring. That reflects very poorly upon M+M from a Canadian consumer perspective.
Man, I hope I didn't buy a total lemon. I've got a case of Norinco non-corrosive copper washed ammo to get rid of through that rifle....
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Yeah, I had one of the first ones that came in. Reliability was fine, but accuracy left something to be desired. Or perhaps my standards were just too high, used to a diet of 5.56 and 7.62x51mm. In any case, I sold it because my interests turned elsewhere as they often do! I was hoping that Gen 2 with the latest improvements was a winner based on the positive reviews I read on the FB M10X User's group. Seems that might have been premature, and my confidence misplaced. Maybe - we shall see. Regardless, I've got a case of Norinco Non-Corrosive ammo that I need to get rid of the fun way....
i have an R18 enroute, however that is in .223 Wylde, and won't be produced in 7.62x39 any time soon. I need that specific calibre to get rid of a case of ammo I have taking up space in my garage. The Jard rifles are butt-ugly and I could never bring myself to own one of those no matter how well it functions. I simply couldn't do it. I tried the Type 81 based on a few recommendations from folks whose opinions I trust. While it was a cut above the Norinco AKMs I recall for $375 back in the late 1980s in terms of build-quality, it didn't really tickle my fancy. My eyes aren't any good for iron sights these days, so an optic is necessary and the Type 81 doesn't do optics all that well. It's not terrible, just not particularly good either. Which brings me back around to the 2nd Gen (or whatever we are calling it) M10X rifle. I read and heard that it was much improved. I suppose I will find out first-hand, starting early next week when mine arrives. Returning it if dissatisfied is not really an option, as it was privately purchased in unfired condition from a fellow CGNer....
^
Fair enough, but the R18 sponsor said in the below interview with First Focal Plane that 7.62x39 mm was going to be the first alternate R18 calibre, though he gave no date when it would appear.
If the Jard is too blocky, SBI just released their Lynx upper to pair with their svelte, Zhukov stock optional lower. They are also working on a DI BCG. You may want to ask if they will be releasing a 7.62 x 39 mm bolt to go with the BCG; you could then build a nicer looking gas tube impinged 180 base rifle with the AR-15 forend components of your choice, paired with a 7.6x39 mm barrel. Or you could get piston based 180 components and a rifle length piston from True North Arms and build a piston 7.62 x 39 mm Lynx. TNA also make a fairly nice upper and lower, too. Or you could roll the M10x dice. Good luck with whatever you decide.
Fair enough, but the R18 sponsor said in the below interview with First Focal Plane that 7.62x39 mm was going to be the first alternate R18 calibre, though he gave no date when it would appear.
First Focal Plane said:
If the Jard is too blocky, SBI just released their Lynx upper to pair with their svelte, Zhukov stock optional lower. They are also working on a DI BCG. You may want to ask if they will be releasing a 7.62 x 39 mm bolt to go with the BCG; you could then build a nicer looking gas tube impinged 180 base rifle with the AR-15 forend components of your choice, paired with a 7.6x39 mm barrel. Or you could get piston based 180 components and a rifle length piston from True North Arms and build a piston 7.62 x 39 mm Lynx. TNA also make a fairly nice upper and lower, too. Or you could roll the M10x dice. Good luck with whatever you decide.
According to Reddit, an FRT entry has been added for the CZ Bren 2, and that it will be coming in both 7.62x39 mm and 5.56, https://www.reddit.com/r/canadaguns/comments/tzkfat/cz_bren_2_ms_guess_what_its_not_april_1st_any_more/. Might make a compelling M10x alternative of not too overpriced.
Forgotten Weapons said:
After pulling my upper apart, I'm pretty sure I know what the problem is. The barrel threads into the steel upper receiver. My barrel/upper receiver install appears to be fine, but when you lay the steel upper receiver on a flat surface, the barrel is canted to the right 1-2mm at the gas block. As everything APPEARS fine at the point where the barrel and upper receiver meet, I think the threads milled into the receiver for the barrel to screw into are canted slightly, resulting in the problem I see.
The one-piece aluminum 'shell' that includes the picatinny top rail and handguard slides onto rails on the outside of the steel receiver. The tolerances between this shell and the steel upper receiver are not particularly tight, which is is something I would NOT see as a positive, as it allows potential movement between the shell (where the frigging SIGHTS are mounted) and the receiver where the barrel is mounted.
As a result of these loose tolerances, by loosening the grub screw and pushing the barrel to the left, it is possible to adjust the position of the barrel within the handguard and re-tighten it, which I did. This doesn't FIX the problem of the barrel not being in line with the upper receiver, but does allow the barrel to more-or-less end up aligned with the optic rails. There will still be some left-to-right discrepancies between POI at various ranges, but this should help.
So, the loose tolerances between the upper steel receiver and aluminum 'shell' are sort of a feature, for rifles with ####ty quality control and off-line barrels, as it allows you to force the aluminum shell to closer match the crooked barrel.
What M+M SHOULD do as a design change, if they can manage to get their barrels in straight, is tighten the tolerances between the steel receiver and aluminum upper, press-fit the two together, and permanently pin them together. This would result in more consistent accuracy.
...grub screw to adjust the whole rail in relation to the barrel... frigging ridiculous...
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This guy has joined up to help you lol.....
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/2263937-M-M-hearts-Canada
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/2263937-M-M-hearts-Canada
Perhaps "they" is the correct pronoun.... but it looks like the name of the person is actually Sherrina.
If the quoted response is indeed accurate, it's a good example of how to alienate customers.
The firearms industry is interesting in that some manufactures go above and beyond even when the person with the problem is not the original buyer, and then others are quick to wash their hands of any responsibility and take the first exit possible.
Hopefully you can help turn things for the better.
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