QD Review - M+M M10X-Z DMR 7.62x39

At least the guy posting the other day wanted to know who within the company sent that correspondence so he could try and rectify that type of customer service issue. THAT is the type of thing we need to see happening from companies so I have to give him credit for that. But the rest of the way he handled the situation with the forum rules and all that wasn't exactly confidence inspiring to the way they handle things. It all left me a little perplexed...

there are no proof hes a rep. anybody can use a logo, sign up and claim to be a rep.

even if hes a M+M rep, doesnt mean he was assigned to our jurisdiction. he shudda talk to the distributor of canada first prior to posting.

i havta agree with you, after his posts were deleted, the way he behaved troubled me, he whined about spending hours posting, really? thats his job. sounded like hes gonna take his toys and go home.

seems like he lacked experience as a rep of a multi million dollar company.
 
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Well, he hasn't logged in since his posts got deleted.

Might as well sign up for a gunsmithing course at time of purchase after reading all these posts on this gun.
 
how do you know he hasnt logged in? i cant find any post now.

I’ve got a couple hundred rounds thru mine without issue - not a lot. Seems fairly accurate and the build quality seems top notch. I’ve taken it out since this thread started and looked over everything - looks nice and tight, and hasn’t wandered with it’s zero. I even dropped it against the wall and the flash suppressor carved out a chunk - still on zero.

I’m starting to wonder if it’s the fit between the steel receiver and the aluminum shell that is the culprit for inaccuracy. Mine is tight and has never been disassembled - nor do I intend to take it apart.
 
I just sold my m10x. It was a nightmare. FTE all day even after warranty work replaced the bolt. I could not reasonably trust it to go bang every time I pulled the trigger which was a deal breaker for me. The North Sylva gunsmith told me to only use SB ammo and no other type which is unacceptable for a modern rifle.
 
Well, the Gen 2 M10X that I bought unfired from a previous owner in the EE has arrived. I bought it just prior to the Barrel deflection issue coming to light, so was understandably nervous while awaiting its arrival! I immediately stripped the rifle to check for Barrel deviation and found that my barrel is slightly off-center .076" to the Right when measured at the Flash-Comp. As this is less than 1/10", I am not sure whether or not my optics will compensate. I did not attempt to "push" the Aluminum Rail to the Right in order to better align it with the Barrel before tightening the Grub Screw, as that is what is causing the sudden "jumps" in windage - people are stressing the Rail to the side, and then the Grub Screw lets go while firing and the Rail pops back into the un-stressed center position. I simply tightened the Grub Screw once I had the Pivot Screw re-installed. That way, the rail (with the optic mounted) does not move in relation to the Barrel when handling and firing the rifle. As others have pointed out, the smart thing for M+M to do would be to press-fit the Aluminum Rail to the Steel Receiver so that there is no more slop between the two. All removing the Rail does is provide improved access to the interior of the Receiver when cleaning. It is no big deal to service the M10X as a one-piece Receiver system. I will strongly consider JB-Welding my Rail and Receiver together once I first determine whether or not Warranty service is required to improve the rifle's accuracy or function. If warranty service is required, I obviously don't want to void the warranty before I receive that corrective service! As the M+M warranty is not transferrable (boo!), the original owner of the rifle has agreed to send it in on my behalf if required. I will know this coming Monday after my inaugural range trip with this particular rifle.

As I stripped the rifle down to check for Barrel Deviation, I could not help but be impressed with the M10X's fit and finish, as well as the elegant simpicity of the design. It really is quite clever how the designer was able to reduce the parts-count by half as compared to an AKM! The machining on the Gen 2 Bolt is impeccable, as it is on the Bolt Carrier and Gas Assembly parts. The OD Green CeraKote finish is smooth and blemish-free, very professionally-applied. Quite frankly, from a design and manufacturing perspective there is little or nothing to fault M+M on. Where this rifle falls down is in its pre-shipment Quality Control (eg. visually-identifiable Deviated Barrels) and its basic performance. If a firearm is not reliable out of the box, then all of the clever design and careful manufacturing is for naught! Sadly, this currently appears to be the case with the M10X, which to date has demonstrated very inconsistent performance and reliability across the 18.6"-barrelled Canadian fleet.

Issues to date appear to be centered around:

a. Deviated Barrels (manufacturer must replace affected Receivers)
b. Light primer strikes (resolve by cutting coils off of Firing Pin Spring, or by installing a stronger Hammer Spring for hard mil-spec primers)
c. Feeding issues (resolve by testing and removing troublesome mags. Use PMags vice steel. Do not "ride" the Charging Handle)
d. Extraction issues with Steel-cased Norinco ammo (resolve by switching to Brass-cased ammo or Barnaul Steel-cased)
e. Ejection Issues - Stovepipes (possibly due to overgassing and high Bolt Carrier velocity. Resolve with stronger Ejector Spring and/or Hammer Spring)

Consistent with the opinions of many on CGN, a rifle is nothing if not reliable and therefore trustworthy. It has to work when needed, and right now there is no guarantee out of the box that an M10X will do so. As things currenty stand, each rifle must be individually test-fired and then carefully "tweaked" with stronger springs, brass-cased ammo, polymer mags, and/or other adjustments in order to reach a level of acceptable reliabllity. Improved QC at the M+M factory would likely go a long ways towards improving immediate reliabiity, as would the installation of those stronger Trigger and Hammer Springs right from the get-go. That the rifle now ships with a PMag is a definite step in the right direction, but there is still much work to be done by M+M. This is needed both to improve the rifle's reliabiity, and then to rebuild consumer trust in the company and its platform.

Test-firing on Monday will tell the tale of my particular M10X. Assuming that the Barrel is not so deviated that my optics cannot compensate, I am confident in my ability to get the rifle up and running in the face of minor issues. We shall see. Watch and shoot.....


20220415-142341.jpg
 
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Well, the Gen 2 M10X that I bought unfired from a previous owner in the EE has arrived. I bought it just prior to the Barrel deflection issue coming to light, so was understandably nervous while awaiting its arrival! I immediately stripped the rifle to check for Barrel deviation and found that my barrel is slightly off-center .076" to the Right when measured at the Flash-Comp. As this is less than 1/10", I am not sure whether or not my optics will compensate. I did not attempt to "push" the Aluminum Rail to the Right in order to better align it with the Barrel before tightening the Grub Screw, as that is what is causing the sudden "jumps" in windage - people are stressing the Rail to the side, and then the Grub Screw lets go while firing and the Rail pops back into the un-stressed center position. I simply tightened the Grub Screw once I had the Pivot Screw re-installed. That way, the rail (with the optic mounted) does not move in relation to the Barrel when handling and firing the rifle. As others have pointed out, the smart thing for M+M to do would be to press-fit the Aluminum Rail to the Steel Receiver so that there is no more slop between the two. All removing the Rail does is provide improved access to the interior of the Receiver when cleaning. It is no big deal to service the M10X as a one-piece Receiver system. I will strongly consider JB-Welding my Rail and Receiver together once I first determine whether or not Warranty service is required to improve the rifle's accuracy or function. If warranty service is required, I obviously don't want to void the warranty before I receive that corrective service! As the M+M warranty is not transferrable (boo!), the original owner of the rifle has agreed to send it in on my behalf if required. I will know this coming Monday after my inaugural range trip with this particular rifle.

As I stripped the rifle down to check for Barrel Deviation, I could not help but be impressed with the M10X's fit and finish, as well as the elegant simpicity of the design. It really is quite clever how the designer was able to reduce the parts-count by half as compared to an AKM! The machining on the Gen 2 Bolt is impeccable, as it is on the Bolt Carrier and Gas Assembly parts. The OD Green CeraKote finish is smooth and blemish-free, very professionally-applied. Quite frankly, from a design and manufacturing perspective there is little or nothing to fault M+M on. Where this rifle falls down is in its pre-shipment Quality Control (eg. visually-identifiable Deviated Barrels) and its basic performance. If a firearm is not reliable out of the box, then all of the clever design and careful manufacturing is for naught! Sadly, this currently appears to be the case with the M10X, which to date has demonstrated very inconsistent performance and reliability across the 18.6"-barrelled Canadian fleet.

Issues to date appear to be centered around:

a. Deviated Barrels (manufacturer must replace affected Receivers)
b. Light primer strikes (resolve by cutting coils off of Firing Pin Spring, or by installing a stronger Hammer Spring for hard mil-spec primers)
c. Feeding issues (resolve by testing and removing troublesome mags. Use PMags vice steel. Do not "ride" the Charging Handle)
d. Extraction issues with Steel-cased Norinco ammo (resolve by switching to Brass-cased ammo or Barnaul Steel-cased)
e. Ejection Issues - Stovepipes (possibly due to overgassing and high Bolt Carrier velocity. Resolve with stronger Ejector Spring and/or Hammer Spring)

Consistent with the opinions of many on CGN, a rifle is nothing if not reliable and therefore trustworthy. It has to work when needed, and right now there is no guarantee out of the box that an M10X will do so. As things currenty stand, each rifle must be individually test-fired and then carefully "tweaked" with stronger springs, brass-cased ammo, polymer mags, and/or other adjustments in order to reach a level of acceptable reliabllity. Improved QC at the M+M factory would likely go a long ways towards improving immediate reliabiity, as would the installation of those stronger Trigger and Hammer Springs right from the get-go. That the rifle now ships with a PMag is a definite step in the right direction, but there is still much work to be done by M+M. This is needed both to improve the rifle's reliabiity, and then to rebuild consumer trust in the company and its platform.

Test-firing on Monday will tell the tale of my particular M10X. Assuming that the Barrel is not so deviated that my optics cannot compensate, I am confident in my ability to get the rifle up and running in the face of minor issues. We shall see. Watch and shoot.....

Very interested in the outcome of your range outing Mark.
 
there are no proof hes a rep. anybody can use a logo, sign up and claim to be a rep.

He is an M+M employee - I received an email from him with an M+M email address. I responded and am waiting to hear back from him. I do hope he sucks it up and comes back here to CGN - it could potentially be very helpful to owners. And, to M+M if he plays his cards right.
 

thanks. looks like CGN deleted all posts related to M+M. did he remove his logo?

He is an M+M employee - I received an email from him with an M+M email address. I responded and am waiting to hear back from him. I do hope he sucks it up and comes back here to CGN - it could potentially be very helpful to owners. And, to M+M if he plays his cards right.

i agree it would very helpful but something about the way he reacted. i dont have my hopes high.
 
Bartok5.

That’s great that you got one. I look forward to your detailed review.

My daughter and I are going looking for coyotes today. I’ve grabbed up the M+M - even tho I’ve got better rifles for the task.

It is a remarkably beautiful rifle, for all her flaws.
 
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Also looking forward to your review Bartok5, really appreciated you sharing your thoughts on the R18 Mk2.

I decided to be bold and rolled the dice on the updated M10X-Z too. Should be arriving late next week, and it will be interesting to see how our experiences compare.
 
Hey guys, I just signed up and posted a new thread for this topic, but thought I'd chime in here too. I spent the last seven months evaluating this rifle. I finally uploaded my review last night. The title is a reference to M+M's advertising copy, in case anyone is wondering. Have a look: bit.ly/prc-016
 
Hey guys, I just signed up and posted a new thread for this topic, but thought I'd chime in here too. I spent the last seven months evaluating this rifle. I finally uploaded my review last night. The title is a reference to M+M's advertising copy, in case anyone is wondering. Have a look: bit.ly/prc-016

Great review of your experience with this rifle. It's really telling of M+M and their warranty support, or lack thereof.
 
Hey guys, I just signed up and posted a new thread for this topic, but thought I'd chime in here too. I spent the last seven months evaluating this rifle. I finally uploaded my review last night. The title is a reference to M+M's advertising copy, in case anyone is wondering. Have a look: bit.ly/prc-016

lol
Brutal. Great vid. Welcome to CGN!
 
Hey guys, I just signed up and posted a new thread for this topic, but thought I'd chime in here too. I spent the last seven months evaluating this rifle. I finally uploaded my review last night. The title is a reference to M+M's advertising copy, in case anyone is wondering. Have a look: bit.ly/prc-016

Good video. It certainly supports Wolverines findings too.

I must have won the lottery with mine. These reviews make me question how long mine will work reliably.
 
Hey guys, I just signed up and posted a new thread for this topic, but thought I'd chime in here too. I spent the last seven months evaluating this rifle. I finally uploaded my review last night. The title is a reference to M+M's advertising copy, in case anyone is wondering. Have a look: bit.ly/prc-016

Since your own thread got clipped, I re-posted it on the Red Rifle subforum, https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/2265118-M10x-Very-Comprehensive-Review?p=18817159#post18817159.
 
Hey guys, I just signed up and posted a new thread for this topic, but thought I'd chime in here too. I spent the last seven months evaluating this rifle. I finally uploaded my review last night. The title is a reference to M+M's advertising copy, in case anyone is wondering. Have a look: bit.ly/prc-016

Thanks, for the great review Lucas!
Their customer service rep was online last week typing sweet sunshine, only to quickly turn sour after having a couple hours of his posts deleted due to not having a business account..... his follow up response attitude of taking his ball and going home rings true to your assessment of their commitment to customer service and support.
 
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