QD Review - M+M M10X-Z DMR 7.62x39

I for one, could not care less about pointless comparisons between the M10X and the Type 81. Who honestly cares?? Calibre aside, they are apples and oranges and comparisons are therefore a waste of bandwidth.

What I REALLY want to know is what will be done to address the M10X Receivers that evidently had their Trunnions bored off-center? For an answer to that, we need the M+M Customer Service Rep back on here actively posting. Thanks to Wolverine for the window of opportunity on their sponsored forum. C'mon CGN - do the right thing for M10X owners and let them speak directly to the manufacturer so that we can get to the bottom of the rifle's issues!
 
Somerset Bar said:
For my perspective, M+M went up a couple of notches in my book.
Wolverine went up several notches in my book,
cgn went down a few notches, because instead of talking to Wolverine, they just twittered the place and deleted everything they didn't like.

Just my perspective. I get that other people pay to be on here, and it's not fair that a company not paying should promote products, but that's not AT ALL what was happening here. I think we were making progress, then down comes the ban hammer. Just my $.02 and I don't pay to be here so take it with a grain of salt. :)
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I agree.

I think CGN handled it incorrectly. I didn't see that the M+M poster was stepping on anyone's toes and wasn't being anything but helpful. So if a business doesn't want a membership, they can't post but 1000s of trolls and bot accounts can? Seems weird to me.

Now all the progress that was being made communication wise has been set back again.
 
How is it pointless? Besides the difference between long stroke and short stroke recoil everything is almost the same. Except the type 81 works and the M10X sometimes does if you use the right ammo and mag combination. Luckily the M10X is far more expensive.
 
Terrible_E said:
It didn't, that's the whole point. Never got more than 3 rounds off in a row. I don't need to justify what there is ample evidence for. You want to make the extraordinary claim that the M10X is as good as the Type 81 you need to provide the evidence for your argument.
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Oh, I never said ‘the m10x is as good as the Type 81’ - that’s too general a comment for me to make, and I’m cautious with my words.

My m10x is more accurate then my Type 81 - likely because I can mount an optic.

In the interest of science I’ve measured my m10x from the outside of the hand-guard to the center of the barrel with a digital caliper depth gauge. The barrel is in fact skewed to the right approximately .23mm. It’s always run a red dot, so we mounted some irons to see what that would look like, the rear iron is drifted slightly to the left- That would make sense.
 
JeffMan said:
Oh, I never said ‘the m10x is as good as the Type 81’ - that’s too general a comment for me to make, and I’m cautious with my words.

My m10x is more accurate then my Type 81 - likely because I can mount an optic.

In the interest of science I’ve measured my m10x from the outside of the hand-guard to the center of the barrel with a digital caliper depth gauge. The barrel is in fact skewed to the right approximately .23mm. It’s always run a red dot, so we mounted some irons to see what that would look like, the rear iron is drifted slightly to the left- That would make sense.
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You 100% said that the M10X would outshoot a Type 81. How you don't equte that to better.....I don't understand because the purpose of a rifle is to shoot bullets.

You can put an optic on both the M10X and the Type 81 so I am not sure why you keep bringing up optics as a point of discussion.
 
Terrible_E said:
You 100% said that the M10X would outshoot a Type 81. How you don't equte that to better.....I don't understand because the purpose of a rifle is to shoot bullets.

You can put an optic on both the M10X and the Type 81 so I am not sure why you keep bringing up optics as a point of discussion.
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My exact quote for you:

“… and will outshoot my 81’s easily, likely because I can mount optics…”

Better can mean reliability, weight, color, flammability, craftsmanship, dimensions, etc. - it all depends what better means to someone.
 
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Terrible_E said:
You 100% said that the M10X would outshoot a Type 81. How you don't equte that to better.....I don't understand because the purpose of a rifle is to shoot bullets.

You can put an optic on both the M10X and the Type 81 so I am not sure why you keep bringing up optics as a point of discussion.
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I’ve got a t81 with a Russian optic mounted but I’ve not had it out yet. Maybe it will be as accurate as my m10x now. The mounting system won’t accommodate my red dot and a magnifier tho - so that’s not good as it’s my preferred setup. Edit to add, the optic pate on the T81 has rendered the safety nearly useless as well - it is quite stiff.
 
JeffMan said:
My exact quote for you:

“… and will outshoot my 81’s easily, likely because I can mount optics…”

Better can mean reliability, weight, color, flammability, craftsmanship, dimensions, etc. - it all depends what better means to someone.
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Rifles are designed to shoot bullets so its not some fanciful pie in the sky select whichever category of unicorn farts you want for comparison sake. You're not even addressing the points I'm raising. You're picking small bits of semantics to argue over instead of addressing the issue, pretty sure thats called a strawman argument.

When it comes to comparing what these two machines were designed to do, fire bullets, the Type 81 is clearly superior. So did you want to try and refute my statement or will you go back to arguing irrelevant points that don't address what we are talking about.
 
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JeffMan said:
I’ve got a t81 with a Russian optic mounted but I’ve not had it out yet. Maybe it will be as accurate as my m10x now. The mounting system won’t accommodate my red dot and a magnifier tho - so that’s not good as it’s my preferred setup. Edit to add, the optic pate on the T81 has rendered the safety nearly useless as well - it is quite stiff.
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If you can't shoot well with irons you aren't going to shoot well with an optic. There are people who can hit at 1000yrds with iron sights. Go take a Mapleseed course if you don't believe me.
 
Terrible_E said:
If you can't shoot well with irons you aren't going to shoot well with an optic. There are people who can hit at 1000yrds with iron sights. Go take a Mapleseed course if you don't believe me.
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Not with my eyes. I’m not old but my astigmatism is troublesome. I barely qualify with irons. I shoot much better with optics.

I don’t think it’s a “unicorn quality” to be able to mount Mlok stuff to a rifle, have lots of rail space, a nice trigger, and a threaded muzzle. Certainly a functioning safety isn’t one of those unicorn qualities - or is that just Symantec’s?

Enjoy your T81, it’s a fine rifle. I enjoy mine.

I’m not really sure what you and I are arguing about anyways.
 
JeffMan said:
Not with my eyes. I’m not old but my astigmatism is troublesome. I barely qualify with irons. I shoot much better with optics.

I don’t think it’s a “unicorn quality” to be able to mount Mlok stuff to a rifle, have lots of rail space, a nice trigger, and a threaded muzzle. Certainly a functioning safety isn’t one of those unicorn qualities - or is that just Symantec’s?

Enjoy your T81, it’s a fine rifle. I enjoy mine.

I’m not really sure what you and I are arguing about anyways.
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I'll refresh you. I said that the type 81 would outshoot the M10X you disagreed and then proceeded to talk about accessories without ever addressing the "rifles are designed to shoot bullets" bit.

I did not say that mounting things was a unicorn quality, I said that you can't just pick a random category that might make you feel correct and base your argument off of that. We are talking about the ability to shoot well and the Type 81 beats the pants off the M10x.
 
Terrible_E said:
I'll refresh you. I said that the type 81 would outshoot the M10X you disagreed and then proceeded to talk about accessories without ever addressing the "rifles are designed to shoot bullets" bit.

I did not say that mounting things was a unicorn quality, I said that you can't just pick a random category that might make you feel correct and base your argument off of that. We are talking about the ability to shoot well and the Type 81 beats the pants off the M10x.
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You win. I surrender.
 
Terrible_E said:
I'll refresh you. I said that the type 81 would outshoot the M10X you disagreed and then proceeded to talk about accessories without ever addressing the "rifles are designed to shoot bullets" bit.

I did not say that mounting things was a unicorn quality, I said that you can't just pick a random category that might make you feel correct and base your argument off of that. We are talking about the ability to shoot well and the Type 81 beats the pants off the M10x.
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Rifles are designed to do more than "shoot bullets", when a firearm is designed a lot more is taken into account. The best rifle for a precision bench rest shooter will be vastly different from somebody doing alpine hunting or going into a combat zone. When looking at rifles and deciding which is "better" for a certain application you take into account things like accuracy, reliability, weight or ballistic performance, and that's only mentioning a few factors.

I'd agree that the Type 81 is a "better" rifle if you want something that will function reliably in all conditions and without complaint. It is a proven design and I would consider my Type 81 as being on par with my SKS with regards to the trust I put in it. If I had to choose a combloc rifle to carry across a post-apocalyptic wasteland (that is available in Canada) the Type 81 would likely be my choice, or maybe an SKS, it would be tough to decide :d

If the application was achieving the most accuracy possible with a modern sporting rifle rifle chambered in 7.62x39mm and no consideration was paid to reliability the M10X might be my choice over the Type 81, provided I had sufficiently tested my individual rifle to ensure it had the desired level or accuracy with the ammunition I was using.

In my opinion too many people get caught up with "x is better than y" or vise versa, making their subjective opinion and trying to pass it off as objective. Rather people should be looking at it as "The Type 81 is the better rifle for me" rather than trying to enforce their opinion as some sort of fact.

For the record, I have not owned nor do I intend to own a M-10X unless there is a significant change in their price and quality control as I am just not willing to risk that amount of money. But that does not mean that somebody else shouldn't consider the rifle, provided the same information they may come to a different conclusion then I have.

Not sure if you are trolling or not but in case you are just not comprehending what JeffMan is saying I thought I would try to articulate it in my own words.

Enjoy the long weekend everybody!
 
I appreciate your efforts IzzyTheGreat.

Well said.

I carry a Glock 17 at work.

It’s not more accurate then the T81, but it’s better suited for what I need to do with it.

Terrible_E may will think the T81 is still better, but who am I to disagree. (Shrug)
 
IzzyTheGreat said:
Rifles are designed to do more than "shoot bullets", when a firearm is designed a lot more is taken into account. The best rifle for a precision bench rest shooter will be vastly different from somebody doing alpine hunting or going into a combat zone. When looking at rifles and deciding which is "better" for a certain application you take into account things like accuracy, reliability, weight or ballistic performance, and that's only mentioning a few factors.

I'd agree that the Type 81 is a "better" rifle if you want something that will function reliably in all conditions and without complaint. It is a proven design and I would consider my Type 81 as being on par with my SKS with regards to the trust I put in it. If I had to choose a combloc rifle to carry across a post-apocalyptic wasteland (that is available in Canada) the Type 81 would likely be my choice, or maybe an SKS, it would be tough to decide :d

If the application was achieving the most accuracy possible with a modern sporting rifle rifle chambered in 7.62x39mm and no consideration was paid to reliability the M10X might be my choice over the Type 81, provided I had sufficiently tested my individual rifle to ensure it had the desired level or accuracy with the ammunition I was using.

In my opinion too many people get caught up with "x is better than y" or vise versa, making their subjective opinion and trying to pass it off as objective. Rather people should be looking at it as "The Type 81 is the better rifle for me" rather than trying to enforce their opinion as some sort of fact.

For the record, I have not owned nor do I intend to own a M-10X unless there is a significant change in their price and quality control as I am just not willing to risk that amount of money. But that does not mean that somebody else shouldn't consider the rifle, provided the same information they may come to a different conclusion then I have.

Not sure if you are trolling or not but in case you are just not comprehending what JeffMan is saying I thought I would try to articulate it in my own words.

Enjoy the long weekend everybody!
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You're going g to try to hang your hat on accuracy? Did you watch the same video as me where the POI shifts by several feet randomly?

I'm not stating an opinion, I'm stating a fact. In every measurable way except for the design of the safety the Type 81 is better/out performs the M10X.
 
JeffMan said:
I appreciate your efforts IzzyTheGreat.

Well said.

I carry a Glock 17 at work.

It’s not more accurate then the T81, but it’s better suited for what I need to do with it.

Terrible_E may will think the T81 is still better, but who am I to disagree. (Shrug)
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Oh boy your apple is different then your orange?

I don't think it, I know it. It isn't an opinion it's a measurable fact.
 
Terrible_E said:
Oh boy your apple is different then your orange?

I don't think it, I know it. It isn't an opinion it's a measurable fact.
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Haha. I’d like to see your T81 in a holster.

Priceless!

Oh well. Like I said, we all surrender to your superior knowledge and opinion.

Thanks for enlightening us.
 
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