RCMP Letter of Interest for a New Service Pistol

The Gen 5 Glock tried to correct some of the previous issues in the other generations....but launched problems on it's own. Trigger pins working their way out when firing and issues with the slide lock mysteriously holding the slide back randomly. In addition to this the classic issue of the frame flexing with a light attached under recoil, causing malfunctions. Now with Gen 4 & 5 the dust cover is hollowed out more than previous Generations to accommodate the dual recoil spring. Means less material, when squeezed with an attached light causing malfunctions by retarding the movement of the slide....so only clip on lights can be used that don't impart force into the dust cover. Gen 5 was made for the FBI but was also made for the US Army RFP.....in a hurry....when they were going to be booted for not meeting requirements. Glock rushed the Gen 5 to market to meet those requirements before it had everything ironed out. In the end they lost out to Sig P320...threw a fit and sued and had that lawsuit dismissed in rapid order as well. Too bad the challenge up here couldn't be dismissed as fast, maybe then our CF would get a new handgun quicker.

By the way, Sig P320 was no stranger to being rolled out with problems, before submission to the US Army...and sold by the boat-loads to consumers, they experienced the problems of having no disconnector and too much mass in the trigger allowing for firing when dropped just right...or an internet dude hitting the back of the slide with a hammer (kind of weird). These flaws were corrected in new production....and old guns but only if you sent them in!!! (How much money did Sig save by not doing all the guns as they knew not everyone would send the old guns in!!!)

The upgraded S&W M&P with the much more flat type trigger is an awesome feeling gun (and I generally despise S&W autos) so they will be a strong contender in this trial with a good price point to match. I like Walther the best but don't rule out other guns, especially ones you don't need to pull the trigger to take apart. They are all good and of course Glock has a very good chance of winning.

It will be controversial, there will be political influences and lots of happy and unhappy people in the end. What I don't like hearing is "just buy this, because it works and everyone else uses it" "and be done" comments. Keep the options open, try and keep the trial fair and maybe look for the newest very best option. Whatever is picked will be around for a very long time to come, so do it right....with our tax money.

Rich
 
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Cameron SS said:
See, we can agree on stuff. :)
Help me understand why you think 'we' (I assume you mean the tax payers) would be better served if they bought just one?
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Did you ever watch the Andy Griffith Show?

That aside Canada's requirement for pistols is quite low by any standard (Numbers). EG the New York police department is larger than our Cdn Army.

Combine the CFO and RCMP requirements and it begins to get interesting for the suppliers. Despite what the "our needs are special" crowd says. all they really need a basic pistol, period. The Walther PDP, 320, M&P represent the three most up to date, most tested designs. Pick one and move on. That includes every uniformed group in the country. Most get basic handgun training and an annual qualification test that any C class or IPSC Sharpshooter IDPA Shooter would pass. We don't ask our police forces to become trained killers we give them pistols to protect themselves and we do that with not a lot of enthusiasm.

From my limited contact with the RCMP I get the impression large Municipal police services are much better equipped than the RCMP so it would be nice to see the red coats move up town as it were with a good modern design. This time around they might.

Max Owner - All striker fired pistols work basically the same way hence we tend to group them. If you accept that statement as being true then you can assume to suck is really quite a come down. Glock suck, by most standards set by folks who don't like them. EG. If you own a Glock and I say they suck it is not the equivalent to telling you your new born is ugly. We humans are a funny group eg. If I own one pistol eg a CZ P10 it is the best pistol and all others suck. If I own a Walther it is the best pistol and all others suck. It is a way we justify to our wives and girl friends how smart we are. Nothing personal. That said, we all know Glocks suck, only the owners of same get butt hurt when they hear it.

I think it has to be at least 70 years ago when Remington brought out a .22 LR with a early polymer stock that we gun owners discovered that polymer guns would survive cold weather. I know this because millions of pistols and rifles have since been made with polymer stocks and frames and they are often used in Arctic conditions. None come with portable heaters. If the cold affected the polymer you can be sure the manufacturers would provide a warming pad and a portable charging system for the batteries. Just saying.

Take Care

Bob
 
Canuck44 said:
Did you ever watch the Andy Griffith Show?

That aside Canada's requirement for pistols is quite low by any standard (Numbers). EG the New York police department is larger than our Cdn Army.

Combine the CFO and RCMP requirements and it begins to get interesting for the suppliers. Despite what the "our needs are special" crowd says. all they really need a basic pistol, period. The Walther PDP, 320, M&P represent the three most up to date, most tested designs. Pick one and move on. That includes every uniformed group in the country. Most get basic handgun training and an annual qualification test that any C class or IPSC Sharpshooter IDPA Shooter would pass. We don't ask our police forces to become trained killers we give them pistols to protect themselves and we do that with not a lot of enthusiasm.

From my limited contact with the RCMP I get the impression large Municipal police services are much better equipped than the RCMP so it would be nice to see the red coats move up town as it were with a good modern design. This time around they might.

Take Care

Bob
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No, never did watch Andy Griffith. Much before my time.

Yes the total number of required pistols is relatively low, however that doesn't convince me that every officer should be carrying the same firearm.

If we made a massive procurement to fit out all of Canada's action jobs with pistols, it would be a calamity. Cost would go up exponentially, and we would have long decades where police were carrying whistles because the procurement team had yet to deliver a pistol.

Single national standing offer program with a list of all of the 'good enough' approved pistols, and then individual agencies can go buy off the standing offer would make much more sense, and would be faster and cheaper in the long run.
 
Cameron SS said:
No, never did watch Andy Griffith. Much before my time.

Yes the total number of required pistols is relatively low, however that doesn't convince me that every officer should be carrying the same firearm.

If we made a massive procurement to fit out all of Canada's action jobs with pistols, it would be a calamity. Cost would go up exponentially, and we would have long decades where police were carrying whistles because the procurement team had yet to deliver a pistol.

Single national standing offer program with a list of all of the 'good enough' approved pistols, and then individual agencies can go buy off the standing offer would make much more sense, and would be faster and cheaper in the long run.
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The RCMP dont even look like police these days. They need to be defunded and scaled way back. They are a shadow of a once proud and stand up force with ethics. The RCMP are way too militarized, they not need tactical gear for everyday use, or new pistols when the current ones work fine and really arent that old. I am also good with them using whistles...
They are not the army and should concentrate on policing rather than having cool new kit..Maybe they can get the old Browning Hi power pistols from the army as they are replacing them. They are a quality weapon that still works great. Prefect for the RCMP..
 
Luckybeer said:
RCMP dont need new weapons.. They need to make do with the old, Which arent that old..
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You really have no idea what you are talking about do you.
CameronSS.: Do you have any concept of what is involved when you arm 15000 individual with a new pistol, train them, maintain their proficiency and maintain parts for said pistols. I don't think you do. Nor do you seem to understand how manufacturing takes place. If having multiple choices for the type of firearm was an option for large departments don't you think it would be in place now? You might want to reflect on what you wrote.

Take Care
Bob
Ps Lucky you made my ignore list congrats.
 
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O boy there is a long story to the PX4 Beretta.....much of which was procurement interference, one might say. Also the lieberal government was feared to be coming back, they were very much against arming our CBSA (lieberals thought it presented a bad unfriendly image for travelers to Canada) so the program was pushed hard and fast to make a decision and get moving...with anything....to beat this threat. Lots more to this story....

Rich
 
Rich LPS said:
O boy there is a long story to the PX4 Beretta.....much of which was procurement interference, one might say. Also the lieberal government was feared to be coming back, they were very much against arming our CBSA (lieberals thought it presented a bad unfriendly image for travelers to Canada) so the program was pushed hard and fast to make a decision and get moving...with anything....to beat this threat. Lots more to this story....

Rich
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:popCorn:
 
Rich LPS said:
O boy there is a long story to the PX4 Beretta.....much of which was procurement interference, one might say. Also the lieberal government was feared to be coming back, they were very much against arming our CBSA (lieberals thought it presented a bad unfriendly image for travelers to Canada) so the program was pushed hard and fast to make a decision and get moving...with anything....to beat this threat. Lots more to this story....

Rich
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soooo much to the story of the PX4 and the arming program. Guess who got his name put on the bad boys list during the instructor training prior to the program start lol. ahhh the good old days. Now I'm partially responsible for the retraining of the entire western region.
 
Slavex said:
soooo much to the story of the PX4 and the arming program. Guess who got his name put on the bad boys list during the instructor training prior to the program start lol. ahhh the good old days. Now I'm partially responsible for the retraining of the entire western region.
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:popCorn::popCorn:
 
Jarvy said:
The 5946 has been out of production for over 20 years. It's not so much old, as it is significantly outdated and no longer has any support (spare parts, new magazines, etc)
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There was a 'rumor" that S&W was going to do a run for the RCMP of the 5946? who knows? Maybe?
 
Slavex said:
Yes, the spring on the floor was absolutely her doing. She took it apart, as she'd been told to do after getting it back from depot, including removing the firing pin. Obviously the spring went spring and she either didn't notice or didn't think it important. She's lucky she came shooting and discovered the issue before going back to work.
And Rich, CSC loves their P2000s? Not out here they don't, they hate them, and not just because of the triggers either.
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I'll second that. The P2000 is a steaming pile. Sure it'll shoot but I'm not sure the word "ergonomic" was invented back then.
 
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