Examples? Are you inferring that because EE sellers are not trying to gouge on a readily available firearm that there must be something wrong wuth it? You won't find a comparable rifle for less, and you won't find a better conventional-layout at the R18's $2700 price point.
Sterling Arms International R18 Mk2 - Redux!
- Thread starter Bartok5
- Start date
Examples? Are you inferring that because EE sellers are not trying to gouge on a readily available firearm that there must be something wrong wuth it? You won't find a comparable rifle for less, and you won't find a better conventional-layout at the R18's $2700 price point.
I have mine listed for a very reasonable price. I went crazy on the landscaping this summer and am just trying to free up some more funds to increase our budget before the snow comes.
It pains me to post it, I think it’s a very fine rifle and the best 180 on the market. I don’t have any personal experience shooting it, as I haven’t had the time yet this summer. I can tell you that compared to the R18, my WK(former), MCR(former), and SBI severely lack in finish quality and features.
I’d much prefer to ditch my SBI build, but for the amount I’d get for it, I’m better off holding on to it. The two rifles don’t compare in the first place.
It pains me to post it, I think it’s a very fine rifle and the best 180 on the market. I don’t have any personal experience shooting it, as I haven’t had the time yet this summer. I can tell you that compared to the R18, my WK(former), MCR(former), and SBI severely lack in finish quality and features.
I’d much prefer to ditch my SBI build, but for the amount I’d get for it, I’m better off holding on to it. The two rifles don’t compare in the first place.
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Well Tavors and X95s have been being sold for years so I imagine they have quite the lead in sales numbers
Still 500 is great to hear but it kinda small fry, it'd be good to see production numbers bump up and prices down a wee bit
How long did it take the X95 to sell 500 copies? We will likely never know, so the comparison is moot. FWIW, it only took the R18 Mk2 3 months, give or take. No too shabby in my opinion.
I will leave it to TSEJR to post the specifics of small-batch production and prerequisites (if any) for a cost-per-unit price reduction. Suffice it to say that I personally doubt the R18 Mk2 will ever achieve the necessary sales volume to achieve economies of scale in the rifle's production such that manufacturing costs can be reduced. The R18 is a def-facto small-batch rifle, wherein only enough receiver sets and ancilliary production parts are machined to satisfy anticipated short-term orders. Due to its comparatively higher unit cost, sales volume of the R18 will most likely always be low compared to that of the "econo-AR-180 clones". After all, Canadian firearms owners are nothing if not notoriously cheap....
I'm sure that everyone wishes that the R18 were less expensive. Heck, I wish comic books were still a nickel, but that is not extant reality. The R18 is already fairly-priced for what it is, and IMHO you get an awful lot for your $2700 investment.
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I hear you on that. People hear how much guns cost and you can visibly see their shock. Meanwhile 5K on a set of golf clubs is a reasonable investment.
Its absolutely hilarious the amount of people who expect sub MOA accuracy out of these types of rifles while shooting ball ammo. That very statement is a juxtaposition.
I would personally go the Bren 2 route if they were NR. even though its an extra $1K over the R18. Accuracy won't be as good. but I'm not buying this rifle for that type of accuracy.
The R18 reminds me of a non plastic SL8 with a better trigger and ergos. I just wish it wasn't so dang heavy (like the SL8). I may as well buy a NR in 308 if I'm going to carry something that heavy.
It is a BCL. Enough said right there. The QC will be nonexistent.....
onetwentyish
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East Central AB (AKA Northern Texas)
Considering the most critical components (the ones that BCL/NEA historically haven't properly heat treated) of the R18 are outsourced to BCL, I feel like this is the pot calling the kettle black.
That's hilarious lol, I wonder how our resident R18 fan will come back from this if true
DaveMachine
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- That one place with a cowboy complex
That's interesting. Where did you get that info?
onetwentyish
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East Central AB (AKA Northern Texas)
Ask JR, he doesn't hide it. Additionally consider how similar a lot of the small components look to BCL components. The bolt catch and ambi bolt release for example.
Let me be clear, I'm not s******* on the R18 or BCL's involvement, after all it's not like there's very many manufacturers in Canada that can actually produce and heat treat a bolt. I think the R18 is a fantastic rifle and is by far the best value for dollar spent on any of the currently available self proclaimed 180 variants.
Also looking very forward to BCL's new models.
In my opinion BCL has made leaps and strides forward in QC over the last few years, and should anything slip past them I have complete confidence in Stirling and TSE/JR catching it in their QC/assembly stages.
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Ontwentyish hit the nail on the head WRT SAI versus solely BCL QC. Sourcing of parts from BCL is not a problem provided that component QC occurs during batch-testing and hand-assembly, as well as assembled product test-firing and final inspection. That is the case with the R18 and its BCL components, therefore BCL's involvement is not problematic. QC issues are intercepted by the SAI assembly line and resolved long before the assembled rifle ever reaches the customer's hands. Unlike BCL, SAI undertook fairly extensive in-house and external testing of the pre-production R18, choosing the additional expense over using customers as Beta-testers. BCL is infamous for fobbing incomplete or untested products off on their customer base.
The myriad problems associated with BCL products typically arise when BCL is left to their own devices with in-house QC. Just check out the thread on the new BCL carbine to see some particularly egregious examples of recent BCL quality with Gas Ports drilled through both sides of a Barrel and accounts of similar shenanigans....
As for me being the "Resident R18 Fan", that may be true. I don't hide the fact that as far as Canadian offerings are concerned, I believe the R18 to be the superior choice of MSR at any price point currently available on the market. If you find my support for the R18 to be tedious Bratwurst, just bypass my input. There's no need for "fan-boy" needling, unless of course you are looking to invoke an equally pithy response from me. After all, nothing beats a good internet pissing-contest replete with name-calling.....
The myriad problems associated with BCL products typically arise when BCL is left to their own devices with in-house QC. Just check out the thread on the new BCL carbine to see some particularly egregious examples of recent BCL quality with Gas Ports drilled through both sides of a Barrel and accounts of similar shenanigans....
As for me being the "Resident R18 Fan", that may be true. I don't hide the fact that as far as Canadian offerings are concerned, I believe the R18 to be the superior choice of MSR at any price point currently available on the market. If you find my support for the R18 to be tedious Bratwurst, just bypass my input. There's no need for "fan-boy" needling, unless of course you are looking to invoke an equally pithy response from me. After all, nothing beats a good internet pissing-contest replete with name-calling.....
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onetwentyish
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East Central AB (AKA Northern Texas)
I don't think there's anything wrong with your giving of flowers to JR/Sterling and the R18, but I do think you should make a greater point of making people aware of your association to them so it's more clear what influence or bias you might have when formulating your opinion.
For those of us that are more aware of yours and JR's relationship, and what you are being given in return for your comments on their product, mixed with your over eagerness to proudly defend and state that this is the best rifle on the market in any price range really does give the impression of shilling, regardless of whether or not that is your intent.
It would be a whole lot more polite and give you far more credit if at the start of every one of your posts on this topic before you delve into great lengths to give the R18 it's flowers if you gave a brief disclaimer of your relationship, similar to how Garand Thumb does when making his videos. It at least allows the intended recipient to not feel like they're having something pulled over their eyes if they find out this information later on after having spent their hard-earned money on it.
Personally having experience with the R18 and many other currently NR contenders, I would put it in the top 5 overall and for the top 5 value for dollar spent, but unfortunately I'm not sure it even makes second or third on either of those lists in my opinion. I think I would rather an x95, APC223, or even an RDB over the R18, but I also don't mind having something that doesn't use traditional AR ergonomics.
If you're dead set that you got to have the closest possible thing to AR ergonomics, then yes the R18 Takes the Cake because it literally has basically no competition.
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Bartok has a disclosure at the start of the thread that mentions some sort of relationship with JR
I don't think the R18 is the be all end all based on his words, but I appreciate the pictures and write up on the rifle regardless.
As I appreciate the same from nearly all the users here.
I don't think the R18 is the be all end all based on his words, but I appreciate the pictures and write up on the rifle regardless.
As I appreciate the same from nearly all the users here.
I provided full-disclosure regarding my relationship with JR Cox in Part 1 of my Review of the SAI R18 Mk2. I mentioned the fact that we are old Army buddies and that he asked me to Review the pre-production version of the rifle. Do I really need to preface every comment that I make regarding the R18 with a repeat of that disclosure? As far as I am concerned, that would be both redundant and annoying such that it would detract from whatever it is that I have to actually say. If you read Part 1 of my review you know about my relationshp with TSE and SAI. If people can't remember that over the fullness of time? Not my problem.
Since it seems to have escaped you onetwentyish, I will point out that I started this thread as Part 3 of my ongoing Review of the R18 Mk2. I clearly stated at the outset of this Review chapter that I had been very pleasantly surprised with the gift of a production rifle from JR Cox for the effort that I put into the Review. I wrote Parts 1 and 2 of the Review with zero expectations of compensation, hence the recent surprise. Once again, need I continually repeat what I have already clearly stated in order to avoid accusations of "shilling"? I don't think so. I have been nothing but forthright with everyone as events such as the recent gift have transpired. It had zero bearing on my Review, all of which was written prior to the gift with the exception of this latest barrel accuracy evaluation. The Accuracy evaluation speaks for itself, as demonstrated by my 5 and 10-round groups on target. My review stands as my independent findings, and was in no way influenced by thoughts of possible compensation as no such thing was ever discussed. I did the Reveiw as a favour to an old friend and because I wanted first hands-on with the new rifle. That's it, that's all.
In the interests of accuracy, let's also address what I have said regardng the R18 relative to other platforms. I have been careful and for the most part consistent in what I have said about the R18 throughout my review and the associated discussion, and I invite you to revisit those statements. What I HAVE said is that the R18 Mk2 is the best, conventionally-configured, Canadian manufactured, MSR currently available. Last I checked, neither the X95, ACR or RBD were Canadian manufactured, so the comparison is not with them, but rather with the WK-180, WS-MCR, Spectre Lower, and their ilk. Also last I checked, the X95 is a Bullpup, so not cconventionally-configured. My only comparison between the R18 with the X95 has been their similar price-point and the fact that the latter may be the superior (more lightweight) choice for a long walk in the woods. In this regard I would simply state that words, accurate word selection and reading comprehension all matter. You are inferring things that I did not say, and that is YOUR problem, NOT mine.
While I may accept some of your quoted criticism purely out of interest in maintaining harmonious CGN relationships, I firmly reject the bulk of it. If you think that I am a shill for SAI and TSE, then I invite you to place me on your "ignore list" and your personal dislike for my comments will magically abate. It is a very simple process, and is entirely your call. I have little interest at this stage of my life in attempting to please all of the people all of the time. Don't like what I have to say? Dump it from your memory-banks and move on. Life's far too short to either worry or piss and moan about such things. My motivatioin in trying to assist everyone in positively evaluating the R18 Mk2 is purely altruistic. I firmly believe in the product and hate to see people disappointed with their lesser choices. Aside from the unexpected gift of a rifle for my troubles, I don't receive kick-backs from R18 sales, so my motivations are pure and simple. Anything sinister is a figment of an over-active imagination on the reader's part....
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I would judge BCL in its current iteration on how it handled warranty for its latest product. From what I have read here a elsewhere, BCL 2021/2022 bent over backwards to address teething issues with there modular bolt action Bison rifle, handling things in timely and competent manner. They also developed a proprietary magazine, no small feat in itself, as Ian at Forgotten Weapons can tell you. If they bring that level of dedication to the semi-automatic space, then I have we may have a good offering. Time will tell.
onetwentyish
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East Central AB (AKA Northern Texas)
Mark, I am not trying to tear you down, and I have certainly missed reading some of your posts as well as some of the preamble that it may have been in response to as there is just too much to keep up on all of it.
I do certainly respect that you did make a point of acknowledging your association to JR in your initial review part 1, and you're right, it would get old having to reiterate that fact all the time. I also appreciate that you divulged that you were given a rifle as a gift, it certainly shows that you aren't trying to hide your relationship.
I suppose I didn't really find the appropriate way to articulate what I was trying to say previously, and I certainly don't know what the right balance of reiterating your association vs qty of R18 posts may be. However with that said, please do relize you're the only lead strong voice on the R18, many will be looking at your reviews as gospel and if the neglect to dig deep enough to find the singular posts that mentioned your association, and as a result may not be making a fair decision in their mind should they come across this information at a later date.
Also FYI, I don't have a block list, I have thick skin and consider myself a free speech absolutist. How are we supposed to move forward and grow if we can't talk with those who we disagree with? Besides I always appreciate your collection and am interested to hear your take on whatever the latest greatest toy is to enter your collection.
onetwentyish
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East Central AB (AKA Northern Texas)
This.
Old NEA certainly had its problems most of which were before my time in this community but I've definitely heard horror stories and seen a couple Oddities in my time as well.
The further along they go the better they seem to do. I do certainly think it's wrong that the consumer is also the beta tester after paying good money, but Sig does it too....
Having Sterling/ Jr be an added buffer on the quality control is certainly an advantage, as it's their name at stake, Not BCL's who while I'm sure are trying to improve themselves, aren't necessarily going to be hurt by having a few bad products get passed QC because it's still almost expected at this point even after the name change. Speaking of bcl's QC, I seen a YouTube video of their manufacturing facility from within the last year, and it looks like they're upping their game with some state-of-the-art equipment to take out some of the human error in the QC process... looks like a step in the right direction!
I am hopeful and optimistic to try their new platform as soon as it makes it to Market. This design was nearly ready to go to market back in 2020 when the OIC dropped. BCL got scared and shelved the program for the consumer Market until it had an frt. Hopefully they have used this time to test the design thoroughly and make any corrections that were needed.
