Sterling Arms International R18 Mk2 - Redux!

[Bratwurst]

As for me being the "Resident R18 Fan", that may be true. I don't hide the fact that as far as Canadian offerings are concerned, I believe the R18 to be the superior choice of MSR at any price point currently available on the market. If you find my support for the R18 to be tedious Bratwurst, just bypass my input. There's no need for "fan-boy" needling, unless of course you are looking to invoke an equally pithy response from me. After all, nothing beats a good internet pissing-contest replete with name-calling.....

You are a fan, and that's mostly not a bad thing, you've made some good points and posts on the rifle.

That being said it does seem like you sometimes interject in unrelated topics with comments about the R18 and how great it is. Perhaps it's the written word coming across poorly but to myself you sometimes come across as a marketing rep for the R18 and not a neutral detached observer. I see onetwentyish has mentioned that you can come across as a "shill". I respect that you've written disclaimers, but the number of highly pro R18 comments and the fact that there's basically you a guy who got >$6000 of rifles to play with from an old friend and no one else making positive posts in any quantity about this rifle means that even with the clearest statement in the world it begins to rub off the wrong way.

You men throw BCL under the bus, despite the fact that they allegedly have changed a great deal since 2020. They've openly come out and said how they need to change a great deal and are producing high QC components. You pass it off as SAI having high QC but can you say what the SAI rejection rate of BCL parts is? Can you say what is actually being done by BCL today? or are you relying on old 102 knowledge? I do note you refer to their PCC, so I'll have to look into that to reduce my ignorance.

I think you just come off the wrong way sometimes, as we all do

Don't take it as a mean jab it wasn't meant that way.

 

[Bartok5]

You are a fan, and that's mostly not a bad thing, you've made some good points and posts on the rifle.

That being said it does seem like you sometimes interject in unrelated topics with comments about the R18 and how great it is. Perhaps it's the written word coming across poorly but to myself you sometimes come across as a marketing rep for the R18 and not a neutral detached observer. I see onetwentyish has mentioned that you can come across as a "shill". I respect that you've written disclaimers, but the number of highly pro R18 comments and the fact that there's basically you a guy who got >$6000 of rifles to play with from an old friend and no one else making positive posts in any quantity about this rifle means that even with the clearest statement in the world it begins to rub off the wrong way.

You men throw BCL under the bus, despite the fact that they allegedly have changed a great deal since 2020. They've openly come out and said how they need to change a great deal and are producing high QC components. You pass it off as SAI having high QC but can you say what the SAI rejection rate of BCL parts is? Can you say what is actually being done by BCL today? or are you relying on old 102 knowledge? I do note you refer to their PCC, so I'll have to look into that to reduce my ignorance.

I think you just come off the wrong way sometimes, as we all do

Don't take it as a mean jab it wasn't meant that way.

I am trying not to take your earlier comments as a "Jab", although that is precisely how they read to me despite the more recent disclaimer.

At the end of the day, I AM a fan of the R18 Mk2, and I fully believe that it is by far the best choice of the currently avialable AR-180-derived designs on the Canadian market. So why wouldn't I sing its praises to all who are curious? Nobody forced anyone else to look at this thread that I started, and being my thread I am free to post in it as I see fit. That said, I shall refrain from discussing or promoting the R18 Mk2 outside of my started threads, as some evidently find any mention of the rifle by me to be annoying. That's fine - the beginners who might have found my comments useful can go without. It is a shame that so many are ultimately disappointed with their purchase of a competing "econo" AR-180 design, but fvck 'em - that's their problem, right?

 

[Bratwurst]

I am trying not to take your earlier comments as a "Jab", although that is precisely how they read to me despite the more recent disclaimer.

At the end of the day, I AM a fan of the R18 Mk2, and I fully believe that it is by far the best choice of the currently avialable AR-180-derived designs on the Canadian market. So why wouldn't I sing its praises to all who are curious? Nobody forced anyone else to look at this thread that I started, and being my thread I am free to post in it as I see fit. That said, I shall refrain from discussing or promoting the R18 Mk2 outside of my started threads, as some evidently find any mention of the rifle by me to be annoying. That's fine - the beginners who might have found my comments useful can go without. It is a shame that so many are ultimately disappointed with their purchase of a competing "econo" AR-180 design, but fvck 'em - that's their problem, right?

I apologise for how my comment came across, it was poorly worded

Don't take fan to be a bad thing, it's not the same as "fanboy" etc.

Again there is a difference between suggesting that something is of high value + quality and discrediting on other designs. It comes across as somewhat elitist to discredit the 180 variants when the WK180C and WS-MCr have served a very large number of people well. Circa 30,000 WK, WS, and Lynx 180s (plus others I think) have sold. That's not happening because they're all made of butter and are useless for everyone.

Some people have had poor experiences, and many have rightfully commented about them, however when 60 of another product have sold for every 1 of another...well maybe it's not happening because of a "f**k them" attitude. The way you're now coming across isn't great so lets leave it be for the day.

 

[Bartok5]

.... The way you-re now coming across isn't great so lets leave it be for the day.

That is only because you once again misinterpret my intent. My "#### 'em" comment was entirely facetious/sarcastic. You evidently missed the particular sentiment that I was going for. Why am I not surprised???

 

[CP 5.3]

I held one the other week and the build quality is next to perfect IMO.

I've been watching videos and following a few posts on the R18.

Also, I have seen a new NR released today but all the billing/screws aren't the greatest on the crusader templar.

I'll be grabbing an MK2 next week when I get paid.

 

[beltfed]

....I think the R18 is a fantastic rifle and is by far the best value for dollar spent on any of the currently available self proclaimed 180 variants.

Think so?

I don't know about that. The WK gets a bad rap for inconsistent quality, but it appears to me that is made up in spades by the manufacturer's unwavering warranty.
For me, the ~$1000 cost makes the WK the clear winner in the 'dollars for donuts' category, even if they also win the fugliest award.

 

[onetwentyish]

Think so?

I don't know about that. The WK gets a bad rap for inconsistent quality, but it appears to me that is made up in spades by the manufacturer's unwavering warranty.
For me, the ~$1000 cost makes the WK the clear winner in the 'dollars for donuts' category, even if they also win the fugliest award.

The R18 is nice enough that without any labels you might mistake it for an ATRS product.

 

[beltfed]

No offence to Rick and company, but that isn't making your argument. lol

 

[Bartok5]

No offence to Rick and company, but that isn't making your argument. lol

And no offence to you, but your taste in self-loading long-guns evidently runs towards the cheap and fugly. The WK-180 may run with some tweaking and warranty work, but those broken pistons are symptomatic of a design flaw. The pricier competition does not have this issue because it uses the more expensive, three-piece design (wth inherent flex) of the orignal AR180. The more expensive AR180-based offerings don't just cost more - they come with a whole host of improvements and refinements that are currently lacking in the WK-180. You definitely get what you pay for when it comes to the Canadian-made AR180 derivatives.

 

[beltfed]

And no offence to you, but your taste in self-loading long-guns evidently runs towards the cheap and fugly.

<laughs in Swiss Arms and KAC>

haha, nope - not by a long shot.

What those new-ish minted safe queens and ownership of the WK did give me is the appreciation of two things:
1) Our government, and by extension, a large swath of the Canadian people have no respect for, and very little to no appreciation of property rights in this country, and
2) My shooting and collecting has come almost full circle in some respects. I still derive satisfaction by shooting and collecting some outstanding firearms designs and individual samples, but I also appreciate simple, basic designs and trying to wring the most from that 'sow's ear', as it were.

WK-180 may run with some tweaking and warranty work, but those broken pistons are symptomatic of a design flaw.

The 'design' flaw isn't related so much to design as it is the assembly of the rifle requiring the proper pinning of the gas block to the barrel (numero uno) and maybe to a lesser extent, the plastic bushing sleeve the piston interfaces with on the upper. Fixes exist for both, and while it may be lowly tweeking with something that shouldn't require it, I'm not going to hold it against 'Dave Machine' or Stirling from having to fix the magnet on his R18...

The pricier competition does not have this issue because it uses the more expensive, three-piece design (wth inherent flex) of the original AR180. The more expensive AR180-based offerings don't just cost more - they come with a whole host of improvements and refinements that are currently lacking in the WK-180.

No question, I'd expect 'more' rifle from the Stirling than a competing WK, but If I ran both head to head in a three-gun or a Service Rifle match, from what I've seen in these pages and from what I know, I'm not thinking the Stirling is going to come out on top (barring any breakage with either rifle).
The Stirling might have a slight advantage with prone, KD range shooting, but the WK has the advantage in off hand and dynamic shooting. They both look to be served by similar ho-hum quality barrels.
The ergonomics seem similar, with weight advantage and balance going to the WK.

You definitely get what you pay for when it comes to the Canadian-made AR180 derivatives.

The Stirling is ~$2850 out the door. the Gen 2 WK is ~$1600 out the door. $1200 difference. That is a pretty decent optic or some decent irons and plenty of ammo.

I dunno about your assertion - I think the jury is still out on this one.

 

[Ceiferiro]

I think the R18 would hold up in a pre 2020 Market but obviously it would need a price adjustment in such a situation .
I liked mine, alittle front heavy with the new barrel. It is far nicer than the WK180 and the MCR although that should be a given for the extra 1250 dollars.

That being said the original upper sent had some issues, Carter and Mike at TSE took that upper, scrapped it and sent me a new one free of charge and I never had an issue after.
Do I like it more than my 550 ? nah not by a long shot, I kneel for Swiss supremacy
Do I like it more than my ACR ? surprisingly yeah, but my ACR was a hot mess of not working for a laundry list of reason
Do I like it more than the B&T APC223 ? once again surprisingly, yes, while I didnt squeeze as tight of groups out of the R18(2moa using cheap 55gr ball is fine for me) but its also nearly half the price of a B&T, the R18 was less picky with mags and the longer handguard let me get a nice far out C clamp for mag dumping into trash as the good lord intended along side feeling better balanced in the hand , the mono upper of the B&T was obviously better for items like the LAM and leaning on a bipod, on the original upper for the R18 I could flex the handguard enough to contact the gas block if I REALLY leaned into a bipod but that issue was resolved with the upgraded upper, the screw adjustable gasblock will also always be the king vs set settings in my mind letting you get the rifle tuned very nicely

I have an OG AR180 upper mated to a WK180 lower and I'll say the R18 piston system is much more akin to that AR18 3 piece piston, vs the cheaper 1 piece the WK and MCR use.
Do I like the R18 more than my AR180/WK mutt ? Hard to say the AR180mutt has my zoomer brain full of copeium for a half hearted attempt to have a cold war collection.


heres a tl;dr or whatever
+modular
+decently accurate
+amazing ergonomics
+soft shooting (Swap that factory comp though its pretty meh)
+The picrail for the stock lets up play with the height of your stock which was neat
+Not picky with mags or ammo
+worked being thrown into a snow bank when piping hot and left to freeze for a bit
+ My buddy has about 5500 out of his with 0 cleaning and he intends to keep going until it just dies at this point
+The receiver is far better sealed than the WK, MCR and ACR ( which has a nice 1/16th inch gap between the bolt carrier and receiver )
-New production is alittle front heavy
-It IS alittle on the pricey side but small batch runs and blah blah blah
-I like using LAMS and #### so I hate having to remove handguards to fully clean a rifle
-New uppers use a magnet to retain the charging handle in the forward position so it would bounce around under recoil vs the original which used a pin/ spur that locked into a recess in the upper
-This magnet has broken on me before
+TSE will replace the part for free
-I dont like the magnet
-Like why is it there, its like half an inch away from the chamber I dont want to be attracting ferrous shavings and small magnetic debris from laying the rifle down or rolling in the dirt
-AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH WHY

That all said I did end up selling the rifle, needed the money for somthing else

7.9/10
If they ever do the mk3 or whatever I'd check it out unless the CETME L actually happens at which point I will throw everything else aside
This has been my cleverly disguised CETME L rant of the day

 

[RRH.01]

And no offence to you, but your taste in self-loading long-guns evidently runs towards the cheap and fugly.

While this rifle may not be cheap in price nor quality, it certainly didn’t escape the fugly stick. That said function over form all day

 

[the radium king]

but you sold the sterling yes?

I think the R18 would hold up in a pre 2020 Market but obviously it would need a price adjustment in such a situation .
I liked mine, alittle front heavy with the new barrel. It is far nicer than the WK180 and the MCR although that should be a given for the extra 1000 dollars.

That being said the original upper sent had some issues, Carter and Mike at TSE took that upper, scrapped it and sent me a new one free of charge and I never had an issue after.
Do I like it more than my 550 ? nah not by a long shot, I kneel for Swiss supremacy
Do I like it more than my ACR ? surprisingly yeah, but my ACR was a hot mess of not working for a laundry list of reason
Do I like it more than the B&T APC223 ? once again surprisingly, yes, while I didnt squeeze as tight of groups out of the R18(2moa using cheap 55gr ball is fine for me) but its also nearly half the price of a B&T, the R18 was less picky with mags and the longer handguard let me get a nice far out C clamp for mag dumping into trash as the good lord intended along side feeling better balanced in the hand , the mono upper of the B&T was obviously better for items like the LAM and leaning on a bipod, on the original upper for the R18 I could flex the handguard enough to contact the gas block if I REALLY leaned into a bipod but that issue was resolved with the upgraded upper, the screw adjustable gasblock will also always be the king vs set settings in my mind letting you get the rifle tuned very nicely

I have an OG AR180 upper mated to a WK180 lower and I'll say the R18 piston system is much more akin to that AR18 3 piece piston, vs the cheaper 1 piece the WK and MCR use.
Do I like the R18 more than my AR180/WK mutt ? Hard to say the AR180mutt has my zoomer brain full of copeium for a half hearted attempt to have a cold war collection.


heres a tl;dr or whatever
+modular
+decently accurate
+amazing ergonomics
+soft shooting (Swap that factory comp though its pretty meh)
+The picrail for the stock lets up play with the height of your stock which was neat
+Not picky with mags or ammo
+worked being thrown into a snow bank when piping hot and left to freeze for a bit
+ My buddy has about 5500 out of his with 0 cleaning and he intends to keep going until it just dies at this point
+The receiver is far better sealed than the WK, MCR and ACR ( which has a nice 1/16th inch gap between the bolt carrier and receiver )
-New production is alittle front heavy
-It IS alittle on the pricey side but small batch runs and blah blah blah
-I like using LAMS and #### so I hate having to remove handguards to fully clean a rifle
-New uppers use a magnet to retain the charging handle in the forward position so it would bounce around under recoil vs the original which used a pin/ spur that locked into a recess in the upper
-This magnet has broken on me before
+TSE will replace the part for free
-I dont like the magnet
-Like why is it there, its like half an inch away from the chamber I dont want to be attracting ferrous shavings and small magnetic debris from laying the rifle down or rolling in the dirt
-AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH WHY

7.9/10
If they ever do the mk3 or whatever I'd check it out unless the CETME L actually happens at which point I will throw everything else aside
This has been my cleverly disguised CETME L rant of the day

 

[Ceiferiro]

but you sold the sterling yes?

Yeah I did, night vision is an expensive game and daddy needs another toob

 

[45C]

extra 1000 dollars.

Actually it’s $1300 as a site sponsor has them for gen 2 for $1400

 

[Ceiferiro]

oh you're right, I swore the gen 2 WKEKs were 1600 but I stand corrected

 

[Bartok5]

The $1300 difference in MSRP between the current-production WK-180 and the R18 Mk2 is accounted for by the R18's:

- Superior standard of machining, resulting in much better overall fit and finish
- Medium-Contour Barrel, producing sub-1.5 MOA 10-round groups with Match ammo and 2.5 MOA groups with bulk 62 gr ammo
- Adjustable Gas Block allows fine-tuning of operating system to specific ammo and results in least possible perceived recoil impulse
- Rifle-length Gas System orovides the softest possible recoil with least wear and tear on parts
- MLOC Handguard with integral QD sling attachement points
- Correct AR15 Magazine Well contour with flared entrance for easy magazine insertion
- Right side Bolt Release Lever
- Standard AR15 control suite, including an enhanced Bolt Catch in the proper location
- Picatinny Buttstock interface

 

[Bratwurst]

The $1300 difference in MSRP between the current-production WK-180 and the R18 Mk2 is accounted for by the R18's:

- Superior standard of machining, resulting in much better overall fit and finish
- Medium-Contour Barrel, producing sub-1.5 MOA 10-round groups with Match ammo and 2.5 MOA groups with bulk 62 gr ammo
- Adjustable Gas Block allows fine-tuning of operating system to specific ammo and results in least possible perceived recoil impulse
- Rifle-length Gas System orovides the softest possible recoil with least wear and tear on parts
- MLOC Handguard with integral QD sling attachement points
- Correct AR15 Magazine Well contour with flared entrance for easy magazine insertion
- Right side Bolt Release Lever
- Standard AR15 control suite, including an enhanced Bolt Catch in the proper location
- Picatinny Buttstock interface

WK Gen 2 has:
- Medium-Contour Barrel, producing sub-1.5 MOA 10-round groups with Match ammo and 2.5 MOA groups with bulk 62 gr ammo (I'd need to clarify on the 10 round 1.5 moa group fro a better shooter than me, the 2.5MOA group is definitely achievable)
- MLOK Handguard

Meh stuff
- Correct AR15 Magazine Well contour with flared entrance for easy magazine insertion
- Superior standard of machining, resulting in much better overall fit and finish

Honestly myself and others really haven't seen a detrimental effect of any meaningful level from magwell angles and "superior fit and finish" meh if it works it works

Nice stuff:
- Adjustable Gas Block allows fine-tuning of operating system to specific ammo and results in least possible perceived recoil impulse
- Rifle-length Gas System orovides the softest possible recoil with least wear and tear on parts
- Right side Bolt Release Lever
- Standard AR15 control suite, including an enhanced Bolt Catch in the proper location
- Picatinny Buttstock interface

 

[Bartok5]

Meh stuff
- Correct AR15 Magazine Well contour with flared entrance for easy magazine insertion
- Superior standard of machining, resulting in much better overall fit and finish

Honestly myself and others really haven't seen a detrimental effect of any meaningful level from magwell angles and "superior fit and finish" meh if it works it works

Thanks for your opinion, however there are quite a number of folks whose views regarding the importance of aesthetics differ greatly from yours. Function over form is fine to a point, but there are lots of gun owners who quite frankly, handle and show off their firearms far more than they actually shoot them due to various circumstances mostly related to range access. Many have commented in my threads and various others about their strong preference for the AR15 Magazine Well geometry It is no coincidence that Crusader Arms/Spectre Ltd went with that exact same configuration on their new Templar AR-180 derivative and mention it as a selling feature in their literature. Given the option, most people prefer that their expensive investments exhibit a high degree of craftsmanship and to look good as well.

The AR15 Mag Well geometry and quality of the fit and finish matter greatly to many end-users and that is a fact.

 

[CP 5.3]

I can see why folks will pick up the Gen 2 wk, but I compared the two and the R18 won me over. The fit and finish/egos are what I liked.

Overall, it's amazing canadian companies are bringing out these NR rifles for customers. Especially with what happened in 2020.

I can't afford the r18 but I budgeted/save up and going to buy it asap.

It would be amazing if Sterling would make a 308/ 7.62. I'd buy it.