Is my Weaver scope bad??? Cabelas Savage Axis

[Wis3guy]

Headed out to the range yesterday to shoot and sight in a few new rifles and optics. Sighted in my girlfriends Ruger 10/22 with a cheap Firefield Impulse Red dot in 5 shots at 25 yards no issues...

Next was my brand new Savage Axis rifle in .308 (this model is cheap and on sale at cabelas quite frequently...see here https://www.cabelas.ca/product/134279/savage-axis-xp-bolt-action-rifle-in-truetimber-strata-camo) and what followed was some of the biggest frustration ever. After bore sighting the gun, I went through almost 20 rounds, and only one was on paper!!! This model of Savage comes with a cheap weaver scope, which I knew reading reviews on the cabelas website that some said was garbage, while others loved their rifles with no complaints...

No matter what direction I went with windage and elevation, I was consistently missing HUGE paper from 50 yards in the prone position. So I moved up closer, about 30 yards away prone...still nothing!!!! It got so bad that I went back to bore sighting before every shot- I would look through the bore, then look through the scope, then the bore again, and then the scope crosshairs would be in a different place! I'd adjust the windage and elevation, and the scope look okay, then I would move my head and look through the optic again and the crosshairs again are in a different place

Now, I am not an excellent shot and I am very new to shooting, but that said I can hit steel pretty consistently at 30yrds with my sks and iron sights. I am not ruling out that just maybe I could be doing a little preshot flinch, but I have no issues cycling my mossbergs doing tac drills, and I know those are gonna thump...

Short of loose scope rings, or a bent barrel, could the scope itself be bad??? Has anyone else had this issue with the same model before??

 

[Phat Eagle]

I bought one of those packages, but had the Vortex scope. Shot like crap until I broke out my torque driver and redid everything properly. YMMV

 

[Ribstaylor]

Double post.

 

[Ribstaylor]

I guess one question should be how did you mount it? It's not loose? If you properly mounted it and properly torqued the screws, the only thing left would be the scope and rifle. Also the rifle itself should probably be torqued to the proper amount to remove one more thing from the equation. I had a buddy with one of the savage 220's bolt shotguns. And the scope they had on that wasn't even water proof. Failed first hunt.

 

[Phat Eagle]

Double tap

 

[Potashminer]

Perhaps to help? Most of my rifles that I use for hunting are 308 Win or larger - most all will put pairs of bullet holes to touch each other, or over-lap - at 25 to 30 meters / yards. So after about 2 or 3 shots you will know whether is going to be sighted in or not - 3" or 4" "groups" at that distance would tell me that something awful wrong - most likely issues addressed in posts above - but can not really "sight in" a rifle, unless you have some sense what size groups you will shoot with it. From your post, I don't think you know that last part yet - what size "group" does it shoot? My shooting to sight in most always done seated at shooting table with rifle on sandbag rests.

I have not done on purpose, but I don't think a "bent" barrel will randomly throw bullets - I think I read some makers like Cooey deliberately bent their barrels on occasion to make the bullets go where the sights lined up - I can not find that article now - but I think only last bullet length or so within the barrel is "needed" for sending bullets to same place - the rest of the barrel is about building up velocity, I think. Unless your stock sloppily rubbing or not against your barrel - for sure I have seen that to cause bullets to fly off in various, unpredictable directions - where a from-the side or from-the-bottom pressure that is different for each shot.

I have never tried to "bore-sight" by hand holding a rifle - have always had barrel held still in a soft jaw vice in my workshop, or the rifle resting on sandbags, on a shooting table, when at the shooting spot. When your scope is working properly, your cross hairs do not randomly move within the scope between shots, but goes to your question if they are moving one shot to the next shot. If you are sure that your cross hairs are moving to a new location between shots - about a sure sign that the scope is malfunctioning inside. I can not recall ever "sighting in" successfully, with a malfunctioning scope.

 

[Wis3guy]

I guess one question should be how did you mount it? It's not loose? If you properly mounted it and properly torqued the screws, the only thing left would be the scope and rifle. Also the rifle itself should probably be torqued to the proper amount to remove one more thing from the equation. I had a buddy with one of the savage 220's bolt shotguns. And the scope they had on that wasn't even water proof. Failed first hunt.

So I pulled it out of the case today to clean it and go over it again, and the rear scope ring was loose. Tightened that, and checked everything else, all was tight but went over it anyways...Not sure how much that would affect it. I know its a super cheap scope, but it hasnt been bumped or beat up.

Perhaps to help? Most of my rifles that I use for hunting are 308 Win or larger - most all will put pairs of bullet holes to touch each other, or over-lap - at 25 to 30 meters / yards. So after about 2 or 3 shots you will know whether is going to be sighted in or not - 3" or 4" "groups" at that distance would tell me that something awful wrong - most likely issues addressed in posts above - but can not really "sight in" a rifle, unless you have some sense what size groups you will shoot with it. From your post, I don't think you know that last part yet - what size "group" does it shoot? My shooting to sight in most always done seated at shooting table with rifle on sandbag rests.

I have not done on purpose, but I don't think a "bent" barrel will randomly throw bullets - I think I read some makers like Cooey deliberately bent their barrels on occasion to make the bullets go where the sights lined up - I can not find that article now - but I think only last bullet length or so within the barrel is "needed" for sending bullets to same place - the rest of the barrel is about building up velocity, I think. Unless your stock sloppily rubbing or not against your barrel - for sure I have seen that to cause bullets to fly off in various, unpredictable directions - where a from-the side or from-the-bottom pressure that is different for each shot.

I have never tried to "bore-sight" by hand holding a rifle - have always had barrel held still in a soft jaw vice in my workshop, or the rifle resting on sandbags, on a shooting table, when at the shooting spot. When your scope is working properly, your cross hairs do not randomly move within the scope between shots, but goes to your question if they are moving one shot to the next shot. If you are sure that your cross hairs are moving to a new location between shots - about a sure sign that the scope is malfunctioning inside. I can not recall ever "sighting in" successfully, with a malfunctioning scope.

If it doesn't even hit paper, how can I know the groups it will shoot?

Maybe prone isn't the best, but holding the rifle steady and sitting on rests, looking through the bore to bore sight it, then the scope and seeing how far off it was, making a small adjustment to the scope, looking back through the bore, and then back into the scope the crosshairs were in a completely different spot, like wayyyyyyy off. I tried look through bore, then scope, bore again, and then through scope and again crosshairs in a super different spot. I was shooting at the middle of a full size human IPSC target and was wayyyyyyyy off everytime.

Thinking of contacting Savage to see if they will send me a new scope. Not sure how much a loose rear scope ring would affect things, even just trying to bore sight the scope and rifle.

 

[Wis3guy]

I bought one of those packages, but had the Vortex scope. Shot like crap until I broke out my torque driver and redid everything properly. YMMV

As in torquing up the scope parts, or parts of the actual gun as well?

 

[conor_90]

Not sure how much a loose rear scope ring would affect things, even just trying to bore sight the scope and rifle.

A whole lot

Torque the bases, and the rings. Start by removing the rings and tightening the bases, then put the scope back on and tighten the rings.

If this doesn’t do anything it is likely the scope. There’s also a chance you scrambled the cheap scope by shooting it with loose rings, if it is still tracking and the reticule isn’t visibly damaged it’s probably okay. First step is tighten the mount and try again

This would be a prime example of “ you get what you pay for”. Are the savings worth it when you factor in ammo and gas from multiple sight in trips to see if the issues is the mount or the scope?

 

[Potashminer]

....


If it doesn't even hit paper, how can I know the groups it will shoot?

....

So should be a picture below of a target - paper is 43 cm tall by 34.3 cm wide - the black felt pen cross was my aiming point at about 25 yards/meters. Rifle was my 338 Win Mag - so about everything was new-to-me - new scope bases that I installed on that rifle receiver, new rings, new-to me Leupold M8-6X scope - I had bore sighted in my shop by peering through barrel and centering on a spot on the wall - then adjust the scope cross hairs to be on same spot, I thought. Loads fired were actually a pressure test series - so not all shots were same powder loading - but maybe can make sense of picture - can see pairs of bullet holes about touching at short range - told me the mechanicals were holding together about okay - I wonder if you have that - for certain if your rear ring was loose that would be a significant issue - do you know that your bases are tight to your receiver? I simply no longer trust anyone else's work - as a matter of course when I receive a previously owned or factory new rifle - I remove the bases - chase the threads in the receiver with a tap to remove whatever gunk a previous person may or may not have used - then a drop of Blue thread locker and I re-install the bases and use my little torque wrench to snug up those base screws to spec - and I do look up and find what is the torque specs called out by the component makers. I have never used any sort of thread locker on any of the screws on the rings - just clean them and torque to maker's specs - the cross bolt first - then use lapping bar to ensure that both rings are in true concentric alignment with each other - then install the scope so cross hairs are "square" to the receiver - then torque down the cap screws while ensuring the cross hairs stay "square" to the receiver - then peer through the bore and "bore sight" as described above. Take outfit to shooting spot and fire at short range target first - in this case was also a pressure test series of my reloads, and to verify that the mechanicals all held tight to each other. Is much ado that many do not bother with, for sure. But a pair of holes touching tells me that my "system" is going good - now up to me to get cross hairs aligned with where the barrel is sending those bullets.

Is a "busy" piece of paper for sure - the white squares at top were my aiming points at 100 yards - so last group was smallest - it says .714" for three shots using 74.0 grains powder - hitting significantly to the left - I had run out of those loads - so is how I finished up shooting that rifle that day. But perhaps you can get the idea - that the pairs of shots - at short range - were touching or nearly so - told me that I could continue to "sight in" - if they were wider - like 3" or 4" apart - would have told me something was very wrong in my system, or my shooting ability - not going to get the thing sighted in that way - whatever the issue might have been.

Target is missing a bullet hole - maybe missed completely or there were two bullets into same hole - I do not remember - my loading notes say that I had loaded 2 rounds for first three increments, then 3 rounds for last three increments - top end load was listed in various sources as maximum, which also turned out, that day, to be my most accurate load.

 

[Jahnj0584]

yea definitely a loose ring. My buddies .223 shoots just fine with the stock scope. You don't need anything better if you only shoot ~6 times a year and just wanna hit steel or yotes. If the first shot isn't on paper, immediately half your distance. I guess it's not your fault that you didn't check everything beforehand but it shouldve been your first guess.

You may wanna close or delete this thread before it becomes a bunch of fudds ####ting on the Axis and any scope under 400$

So I pulled it out of the case today to clean it and go over it again, and the rear scope ring was loose.

 

[IvoB]

Never had any issues with the weaver scopes - make sure everything is tight - Savage Axis are gems to shoot

 

[Potashminer]

...

You may wanna close or delete this thread before it becomes a bunch of fudds ####ting on the Axis and any scope under 400$

I probably qualify as Grandpa Super Fudd since I do not own any semi-auto centre fire rifles, nor do I own hand guns any more. But there is a Savage Axis II Scout in the mail to me now - first one that I will have owned - in 7.62x39 cartridge - will also be a new one to me - and I do own multiple older Weaver scopes 60 B, C and so on - just none made off-shore, so I have never deliberately owned one that was "made-in-China", or Philippines, or Korea, etc. I am however a big fan of made-in-Japan older scopes like Tasco World Class and others - but they are old - like me ...

 

[Raton57]

Now I have to check all my scopes before I first shoot them.

 

[stubblejumper]

- I would look through the bore, then look through the scope, then the bore again, and then the scope crosshairs would be in a different place! I'd adjust the windage and elevation, and the scope look okay, then I would move my head and look through the optic again and the crosshairs again are in a different place

The crosshairs should not move when you move your eye from the scope to the bore and back to the scope without moving the rifle or adjusting anything. If that is happening, then the issue is you. I bore sight using that method myself, with the target at 100m, and the first shot is always on the target, usually within a few inches of the bullseye. Put the rifle on a solid rest,don't touch it, and concentrate on centering the muzzle in the bore, not just seeing the bullseye through the bore. And make sure that your eye is at the proper distance from the scope for proper eye relief. And be aware that the crosshairs will move the opposite direction from the scope adjustments, if the crosshairs are too high, you adjust the turret in the direction marked up, not down, to get the crosshairs to move down..

 

[OkayShooter]

yea definitely a loose ring. My buddies .223 shoots just fine with the stock scope. You don't need anything better if you only shoot ~6 times a year and just wanna hit steel or yotes. If the first shot isn't on paper, immediately half your distance. I guess it's not your fault that you didn't check everything beforehand but it shouldve been your first guess.

You may wanna close or delete this thread before it becomes a bunch of fudds ####ting on the Axis and any scope under 400$

You are aware it's not the fudds that complain about cheap guns?

You clearly have not been around for the Steven 200. Those were 200$ and they were accurate with white box. It surprised me and I was if it didnt have a bull barrel it cannot shoot type of person.

 

[Wis3guy]

A whole lot

Torque the bases, and the rings. Start by removing the rings and tightening the bases, then put the scope back on and tighten the rings.

If this doesn’t do anything it is likely the scope. There’s also a chance you scrambled the cheap scope by shooting it with loose rings, if it is still tracking and the reticule isn’t visibly damaged it’s probably okay. First step is tighten the mount and try again

This would be a prime example of “ you get what you pay for”. Are the savings worth it when you factor in ammo and gas from multiple sight in trips to see if the issues is the mount or the scope?

Lucky for me I didnt just bring one toy, so it definitely wasn't a wasted trip.

So should be a picture below of a target - paper is 43 cm tall by 34.3 cm wide - the black felt pen cross was my aiming point at about 25 yards/meters. Rifle was my 338 Win Mag - so about everything was new-to-me - new scope bases that I installed on that rifle receiver, new rings, new-to me Leupold M8-6X scope - I had bore sighted in my shop by peering through barrel and centering on a spot on the wall - then adjust the scope cross hairs to be on same spot, I thought. Loads fired were actually a pressure test series - so not all shots were same powder loading - but maybe can make sense of picture - can see pairs of bullet holes about touching at short range - told me the mechanicals were holding together about okay - I wonder if you have that - for certain if your rear ring was loose that would be a significant issue - do you know that your bases are tight to your receiver? I simply no longer trust anyone else's work - as a matter of course when I receive a previously owned or factory new rifle - I remove the bases - chase the threads in the receiver with a tap to remove whatever gunk a previous person may or may not have used - then a drop of Blue thread locker and I re-install the bases and use my little torque wrench to snug up those base screws to spec - and I do look up and find what is the torque specs called out by the component makers. I have never used any sort of thread locker on any of the screws on the rings - just clean them and torque to maker's specs - the cross bolt first - then use lapping bar to ensure that both rings are in true concentric alignment with each other - then install the scope so cross hairs are "square" to the receiver - then torque down the cap screws while ensuring the cross hairs stay "square" to the receiver - then peer through the bore and "bore sight" as described above. Take outfit to shooting spot and fire at short range target first - in this case was also a pressure test series of my reloads, and to verify that the mechanicals all held tight to each other. Is much ado that many do not bother with, for sure. But a pair of holes touching tells me that my "system" is going good - now up to me to get cross hairs aligned with where the barrel is sending those bullets.

Is a "busy" piece of paper for sure - the white squares at top were my aiming points at 100 yards - so last group was smallest - it says .714" for three shots using 74.0 grains powder - hitting significantly to the left - I had run out of those loads - so is how I finished up shooting that rifle that day. But perhaps you can get the idea - that the pairs of shots - at short range - were touching or nearly so - told me that I could continue to "sight in" - if they were wider - like 3" or 4" apart - would have told me something was very wrong in my system, or my shooting ability - not going to get the thing sighted in that way - whatever the issue might have been.

Target is missing a bullet hole - maybe missed completely or there were two bullets into same hole - I do not remember - my loading notes say that I had loaded 2 rounds for first three increments, then 3 rounds for last three increments - top end load was listed in various sources as maximum, which also turned out, that day, to be my most accurate load.

View attachment 635024

I guess I was just too trusting of the factory assembly. In my other hobbies I have this mentality, trust nothing or no one and do it myself. Guess I learned the hard way on this one. Thank you!

yea definitely a loose ring. My buddies .223 shoots just fine with the stock scope. You don't need anything better if you only shoot ~6 times a year and just wanna hit steel or yotes. If the first shot isn't on paper, immediately half your distance. I guess it's not your fault that you didn't check everything beforehand but it shouldve been your first guess.

You may wanna close or delete this thread before it becomes a bunch of fudds ####ting on the Axis and any scope under 400$

Part of it was that I forgot my toolkit at home. Live and learn. Im gonna get it back apart, torque everything to spec, and go from there.

As for the fudds, they really dont bother me. I learned when I first joined here there are a lot of cranky know-it-alls, and then some people who generally want to help without insulting a newb like myself.

Never had any issues with the weaver scopes - make sure everything is tight - Savage Axis are gems to shoot

The gun itself seems pretty well put together. When I first got it I had it all apart, and for new shooter like me everything was good and dandy. Im gonna get this scope all worked out and get back out there with it.

The crosshairs should not move when you move your eye from the scope to the bore and back to the scope without moving the rifle or adjusting anything. If that is happening, then the issue is you. I bore sight using that method myself, with the target at 100m, and the first shot is always on the target, usually within a few inches of the bullseye. Put the rifle on a solid rest,don't touch it, and concentrate on centering the muzzle in the bore, not just seeing the bullseye through the bore. And make sure that your eye is at the proper distance from the scope for proper eye relief. And be aware that the crosshairs will move the opposite direction from the scope adjustments, if the crosshairs are too high, you adjust the turret in the direction marked up, not down, to get the crosshairs to move down..

Thank you for the feedback. I am totally aware to it having been user error, or a combination of me and what seems like a loose scope ring that as mentioned here would definitely affect the outcome of my shots. As for the adjustment of the turrets, I am familiar with how it works. Made sure to drill it into my head before heading out to the range, since I also had to sight in the optic on a ruger 10/22...that was a piece of cake, so I knew something was off on this savage, whether me or the rifle.


Thanks to all for the help and insight! It is much appreciated

 

[WhelanLad]

an Axis i shoot a bit down here, its a Mates, in .308... it will shoot 1 moa at 100 all day with corelokt facotry 150gr an some cheapo scope.

 

[Wis3guy]

an Axis i shoot a bit down here, its a Mates, in .308... it will shoot 1 moa at 100 all day with corelokt facotry 150gr an some cheapo scope.

And thats kinda why I bought this thing in the first place, most reviews of it are that for the price point it shoots well. The range I shoot at I cant do more than 100 yards unfortunately, so this will really ony see usage here and there at the range, and some hunting couple times a year. Im confident once I get this sorted out, it should suit my needs perfectly.

 

[AdamRoby]

I recently had a Bushnell Banner that was wondering all over the place until the reticle fell out of its housing, so scopes can definitely go bad. In my case it was an Amazon "deal", and probably a knock-off. Another thing to consider is heat. I have a Mossberg 4x4 in 30-06 with a pretty thin barrel. You can't shoot 20 rounds and expect it to be on target because the heat really affects the accuracy. I normally bring a 22LR with me, I will shoot one shot with the 30-06, then go through a 10x mag of 22's, then go back to the 30-06 and take another shot. Not sure about the Axis, but its something else to consider.