Wanting to add a 20ga SXS.......

L

Licensed to kill

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Peace Country Alberta
...to my lot and am on the fence as to where to go with this. I would like a CZ Bobwhite as I am told they are a decent quality for the price and I am coming around to the screw in chokes (have opposed them for decades). I think this would be the "logical" option to use for clays and upland. Have also been looking at some higher end stuff like AYA sidelocks, Baretta, and pretty much anything that has reasonable quality and features I want that include double triggers, straight stock and LOP, DAC and DAH but few of those have screw in chokes and choosing fixed chokes is daunting when wanting to use it for more than one shooting discipline. Prefer extractors but ejectors would not be a deal breaker. I have little experience with suppository shotguns so any and all advice would be welcome. .
 
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If you are considering CZ , have a look at Huglu, they make the CZ SxS shotguns, and Prophet River brings in hundreds of Huglu shotguns every year. If your budget is larger, AYA is a good brand to consider. As far as fixed chokes go, I have IC/IM fixed chokes on my SxS shotguns, and they work well for all bird hunting, and I have shot some clean rounds of skeet with them. All of my SxS and O/U shotguns have ejectors, once you get used to them, it is very rare for a hull to hit the ground.
 
stubblejumper said:
If you are considering CZ , have a look at Huglu, they make the CZ SxS shotguns, and Prophet River brings in hundreds of Huglu shotguns every year.
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Thank you, yes I have. In fact I already checked out PR but they do not have a Huge in 20ga, they only list 12GA, 28GA and .410 in stock. There appears to be no difference in the Huglu and CZ models, pretty much like Chevy and GMC.

If your budget is larger, AYA is a good brand to consider. As far as fixed chokes go, I have IC/IM fixed chokes on my SxS shotguns, and they work well for all bird hunting, and I have shot some clean rounds of skeet with them. All of my SxS and O/U shotguns have ejectors, once you get used to them, it is very rare for a hull to hit the ground.
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I have one shotgun that I bought a few years ago with ejectors and SST, in fact, it is the only shotgun I own of the more than half dozen that can shoot smokeless. I do not see the need for ejectors but.like I said, they would not be a deal breaker. The Huge/CZ would be the "logical" choice as far as "bang for the buck" goes but, like a Magpie, I like shiny. Have found many guns that interested me but all are either in the US or the UK. It seems the ones in the US do not ship internationally. IMO, the UK is the place to go for SXS's of all qualities as they are more widely used there than most other places (although they are being replaced by O/U's as of late). Thought that the popular switch to O/U's might bring the price of a good SXS down in the UK but does not seem that way. Would prefer to buy in Canada but will look wherever I can find something I want and can get.
 
Couple things.

First, extractors/ejectors. When I first got into the SxS world I just assumed I wanted ejectors. They were always a desired option, increasing the price of vintage sxs. However, I use my guns. And in time have come to the conclusion I would prefer extractors most of the time. To the point I have considered disabling the ejectors on a couple guns.

Second, importing. Importing from the US is easy. It adds $500-$600 Cnd to the price of what you are buying. No American seller "can" ship to Canada. If you buy a US gun, the American seller must ship it to a firearms exporter, like Borderview or IRUNGUNS. Keep in mind the US market for SxS is more vibrant than Canada so prices are typically at least 20-30% higher once FX is taken into account. Importing from the UK is similar in that it must be done by a specialist. The difference there is you are easily over $1200 Cnd in fees. The gun needs to be worth the expense.
 
canvasback said:
Couple things.

First, extractors/ejectors. When I first got into the SxS world I just assumed I wanted ejectors. They were always a desired option, increasing the price of vintage sxs. However, I use my guns. And in time have come to the conclusion I would prefer extractors most of the time. To the point I have considered disabling the ejectors on a couple guns.

Second, importing. Importing from the US is easy. It adds $500-$600 Cnd to the price of what you are buying. No American seller "can" ship to Canada. If you buy a US gun, the American seller must ship it to a firearms exporter, like Borderview or IRUNGUNS. Keep in mind the US market for SxS is more vibrant than Canada so prices are typically at least 20-30% higher once FX is taken into account. Importing from the UK is similar in that it must be done by a specialist. The difference there is you are easily over $1200 Cnd in fees. The gun needs to be worth the expense.
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At those kind of import fees it puts anything I have been looking at "overpriced". If I was looking at a Boss, Holland & Holland, Purdey or the like, then an additional $1200 is not a deal breaker as it would represent a relatively small percentage of the purchase price. When the purchase price is <$5000, an extra $1200 is significant.
 
I have imported from the US in the not too distant past. I used Prophet River’s importing brokerage, quick and reasonably priced. The seller must ship the gun to Prophet River’s designated Federal Firearms Licenced dealer, usual charge about $50 US, paid to the seller. PR then imports the gun for a flat fee ( see their website) and then forwards the gun to you for a shipping fee depending on where you live. You will also be required to pay any applicable Provincial or Federal sales tax. I found that my total cost, in hand in Canadian dollars worked out to about 155% of the sale price in US dollars ( a $1000 US gun would cost me about $1550 Can.). Our dollar has slipped since then.
 
Ashcroft said:
I have imported from the US in the not too distant past. I used Prophet River’s importing brokerage, quick and reasonably priced. The seller must ship the gun to Prophet River’s designated Federal Firearms Licenced dealer, usual charge about $50 US, paid to the seller. PR then imports the gun for a flat fee ( see their website) and then forwards the gun to you for a shipping fee depending on where you live. You will also be required to pay any applicable Provincial or Federal sales tax. I found that my total cost, in hand in Canadian dollars worked out to about 155% of the sale price in US dollars ( a $1000 US gun would cost me about $1550 Can.). Our dollar has slipped since then.
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I think I read on PR site that they charge $100 for import so not a huge expense on this end. All good info. Thanks
 
bunny said:
The Huglu SxS 20's are very nice I have 3 Huglu's love them all.
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Yes, as near as I can tell they are just a rebranded CZ (or the CZ is a rebranded Huglu). I have not held a Bobwhite but I did hold a Ringneck (predecessor to the sharp-tail)and while it was nothing fancy, it held and pointed well and looked decent construction wise. They tend to have a VERY good reputation.
 
Licensed to kill said:
Yes, as near as I can tell they are just a rebranded CZ (or the CZ is a rebranded Huglu). I have not held a Bobwhite but I did hold a Ringneck (predecessor to the sharp-tail)and while it was nothing fancy, it held and pointed well and looked decent construction wise. They tend to have a VERY good reputation.
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CZ shotguns are made by Huglu
 
If you think a hugulu or a cz will stand up to shooting 2000’s of rounds of sporting clays and other games you will be disappointed they are not built for 3000-5000 rounds a year .
If you plan on a few hundred rounds a year they may be ok
Other wise save up $4000-7000$ and buy a sxs of investment grade quality it will pay off in the end
 
struff55 said:
If you think a hugulu or a cz will stand up to shooting 2000’s of rounds of sporting clays and other games you will be disappointed they are not built for 3000-5000 rounds a year .
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I don't

Other wise save up $4000-7000$ and buy a sxs of investment grade quality it will pay off in the end
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I am looking at some it that price range also (most of the guns I have been looking at from the UK)
 
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struff55 said:
If you think a hugulu or a cz will stand up to shooting 2000’s of rounds of sporting clays and other games you will be disappointed they are not built for 3000-5000 rounds a year .
If you plan on a few hundred rounds a year they may be ok
Other wise save up $4000-7000$ and buy a sxs of investment grade quality it will pay off in the end
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If I was going to shoot 5000 rounds out of a SxS every year, I would go with a BSS , or a Model 21, they aren't lightweight guns, but they stand up well to higher volume shooting. Even a high quality 6lb SxS isn't a good choice for high volume shooting.
 
I had a Bobwhite in 20 gauge.

I sold it.

It was a nice gun, and had a lot of what I wanted. Including a straight stock, and screw in chokes. However, the threaded chokes did have an effect on appearance. The ends of the barrels bulged out slightly, to accommodate the additional metal. While not a huge deal breaker, it was somewhat disappointing. I did however hold a nice Berretta SXS in 20 gauge at one of the outdoor shows, straight stock, and screw in chokes, absent the "trombone effect" at the end of the barrel...the kicker was the $7K price tag.

See one, decide...it was a super nice shooter.
 
stubblejumper said:
If I was going to shoot 5000 rounds out of a SxS every year, I would go with a BSS , or a Model 21, they aren't lightweight guns, but they stand up well to higher volume shooting. Even a high quality 6lb SxS isn't a good choice for high volume shooting.
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Good advice.
 
Bluebulldog said:
I had a Bobwhite in 20 gauge.

I sold it.

It was a nice gun, and had a lot of what I wanted. Including a straight stock, and screw in chokes. However, the threaded chokes did have an effect on appearance. The ends of the barrels bulged out slightly, to accommodate the additional metal. While not a huge deal breaker, it was somewhat disappointing. I did however hold a nice Berretta SXS in 20 gauge at one of the outdoor shows, straight stock, and screw in chokes, absent the "trombone effect" at the end of the barrel...the kicker was the $7K price tag.

See one, decide...it was a super nice shooter.
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I have not seen a Bobwhite "in the flesh" but I did handle a CZ Ringneck, the predecessor to the Sharp-tail. I did not notice any bulge in the barrel ends on that one. Truth be told, I do not like the looks of any of the the Huglu guns I have looked at. I do not like the looks of guns with no lock panel and I think the checkering is cheesy as well as the engraving. However, as a utilitarian gun, I think the Huglu/CZ is a solid choice from what I have read and the Ringneck that I handled seemed to handle well. I have been also looking at a few beretta's, AYA's and a few others in the $4000-$10,000 range. Most have fixed chokes. Price does not really concern me, I tend to go for "value" and am still on the fence as to whether to do the logical thing and get a utilitarian gun or feed my obsession with flash and get a higher end gun. I would go higher end in a blink if I thought there was any way to hand it down to a son/grandson and not someday see it hauled away by the gestapo for destruction. I think the odds of handing it down are pretty slim to none, therefore the smart money, IMO is to go utilitarian, and consider it as disposable.
 
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stubblejumper said:
If I was going to shoot 5000 rounds out of a SxS every year, I would go with a BSS , or a Model 21, they aren't lightweight guns, but they stand up well to higher volume shooting. Even a high quality 6lb SxS isn't a good choice for high volume shooting.
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I don't like either of those guns but that's good advice.
 
The BSS are very strong guns, and available with an English grip but not double triggers or chokes. Same for the Winchester M21 (assuming a $10K gun was even an option). The Huglu/CZ guns are good guns "for the money" and are available in the DT/English grip desired. I've owned a couple of CZ 20ga SxS's, and they were perfectly fine but lacking that "it" factor that only seems to come with much greater expense. I would not expect any Turkish gun to stand up to high volume shooting, over many years - if that is indeed the plan.

If you're buying new, I'd consider the FAIR Iside as reportedly a lot of gun for the money and available with chokes. Not sure about the DT/EG though.

On the used market, the opportunities/possibilities are near endless in 12ga but slim and by good fortune in 20ga. If you could stumble across an original (i.e. Miroku) Charles Daly 500 in 20ga... well, you'd better hope I don't see it first. And I have seen a few Beretta 471s (which are available with DT/EG) up here, but I don't recall ever seeing a 20ga version.

PR has a 20ga AyA Matador right now - DT, pistol grip 27" M/IM for a very reasonable price. The Matador is a very well reputed gun for durability, but I've not seen one in person to assess the build quality/cosmetics. Certainly, it should pale in comparison to the higher end AyA's.

Last thing I'll say is that screw-in chokes have no place in a classic DT SxS and chokes in general are way overthought. For upland and "casual" clay shooting, anything from SK/SK to M/M or a combination in between is fine. If you can find some, or load some, spreaders can help out a tight choked gun in thick grouse/woodcock cover.

Now that I've poked a stick into the hornets nest of chokes... I'll see myself to the door. LOL
 
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