Troy PAR 223 or MRA Renegade?

alpining said:
Did Troy make them in 338 Federal? If it was rebarreled that could have had something to do with it. Troy had to flute their chambers to make extraction work on the PAR, right?
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Yes and no. Troy initially fluted the PAR chambers thinking that this would aide in primary extraction. Turns out it was unnecessary, and Troy no longer flutes their chambers. My PAR 308 is not fluted and extracts even dirty surplus IVI from 1975 just fine with minimal rearwards effort on the Handguard (VFG). I am not sure if the .223 Chamber that came with my small PAR was fluted as I never fired that Barrel, I immedately swapped it over to .300 Blk, which has fed and extracted/ejected just fine ever since.

As near as I can ascertain from owning both models of PAR, the rumour that they are hard-extracting is patently FALSE. Both models of Troy PAR function easily as intended and designed.

I have no trouble benching the PAR 308 rifle. I just raise the muzzle a couple of inches between shots to rack the pump and cycle the action. Then I lower the rifle back onto the rest and prepare to fire the next shot. I don't find it at all disruptive to the process of accurate shooting. For any field shooting off-bench, the PAR's pump-action is clearly superior to the side-cocking MRA products in terms of both for both speed and simplicity. Both the Renegade and the Matador require the firer to reposition the support hand in order to cycle the action, then replace the support hand on the Handguard. The PAR is much faster in this regard, as the support hand never leaves the Handguard/Pump Handle while cycling the action.
 
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alpining said:
Did Troy make them in 338 Federal? If it was rebarreled that could have had something to do with it. Troy had to flute their chambers to make extraction work on the PAR, right?
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Yes, they did when they first came out, but I believe they were discontinued a few years after. I picked this off an old Rampart advertisement, they originally bought in the Troys. Here is the calibers for AR-10 style

TROY's bigger bore PARs are available in .308 Win, 7.62mm NATO, .243 Win, 7mm-08 Rem, and .338 Fed.
 
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Winchester1973 said:
Yes, they did when they first came out, but I believe they were discontinued a few years after. I picked this off an old Rampart advertisement, they originally bought in the Troys. Here is the calibers for AR-10 style

TROY's bigger bore PARs are available in .308 Win, 7.62mm NATO, .243 Win, 7mm-08 Rem, and .338 Fed.
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Didn't know that, thanks.
 
Bartok5 said:
Yes and no. Troy initially fluted the PAR chambers thinking that this would aide in primary extraction. Turns out it was unnecessary, and Troy no longer flutes their chambers. ...
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Interesting. They may have changed chamber dimensions as part of the decision to do without fluting. I remember reading that pump actions are prone to unlocking /extraction issues in general (not just the PAR).
 
Meroh said:
Fluted chambers in the PAR make reloading a PITA.
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No, they don't. The added expense and complexity of fluting the chambers was found to be unnecessary, so it was ceased shortly after production of the Troy PAR commenced. My PAR308 and PAR .300 Blk both reliably extract with minimal effort...
 
alpining said:
Interesting. They may have changed chamber dimensions as part of the decision to do without fluting. I remember reading that pump actions are prone to unlocking /extraction issues in general (not just the PAR).
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Bartok says he has no problems with both of his, I did with mine, but it could be I just had 1 bad rifle. I will have to check to see if I still have the video I made on Extraction problems that I sent to Rampart, I know about that time Troy had come up with an upgrade on the handle and rollers that are in the handguard
 
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Bartok5 said:
No, they don't. The added expense and complexity of fluting the chambers was found to be unnecessary, so it was ceased shortly after production of the Troy PAR commenced. My PAR308 and PAR .300 Blk both reliably extract with minimal effort...
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I'm glad if the did. My buddies rifle has a fluted chamber, and reloading is brutal.
 
Bittereinder said:
I also have the 1st gen. I discovered a few months ago that at least on mine, the bolt holds open with an empty PMAG inserted (but not with other mags I have). The PMAGs have a sharper angle at the aft part of the feed lip, which is enough to hold the bolt open.

Part of me wants to upgrade to the gen 2, for the sole reason of hearing that sweet sound when you hit the bolt release after inserting a new mag. But then I think about how much I'm willing to spend now, while there's still hope I could hear that sound again with the currently prohib receiver.
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Probably because I modified all my PMAGs to fit my T97 that they don't allow it to hold open. Literally all my mags are currently PMAG's. The only metal GI mag I currently have came with my T97, an has that pin lug sticking out, stopping it from properly inserting in the mag well.

The metal mag that came with my Tavor was garbage. I chucked it years ago.

I don't really mind. Cleaning can be a PITA, but it's a bolt action, so cleaning isn't as frequent as a semi auto with a gas system. I've rigged some para cord to keep the bold in the rear position while I run my snake through the barrel.
 
Interesting thread and for me, timely. I am looking at buying a rifle chambered in 300 AAC BLK. The Troy PAR and Renegade seem to pop up in searches. I already have a Renegade in .223 and while I am not enamored with the straight pull action, the fact that I may be able to simply rebarrel it with a 300 Blackout barrel is somewhat compelling.

I have no experience with the Troy PAR, but I have had mixed experience with a pump anything other than a shotgun. The button at the bottom of the trigger guard in order to rack the pump action seems like something that can be problematic.

Maybe there's a better option for a 300 Blackout rifle out there.
 
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thegazelle said:
Interesting thread and for me, timely. I am looking at buying a rifle chambered in 300 AAC BLK. The Troy PAR and Renegade seem to pop up in searches. I already have a Renegade in .223 and while I am not enamored with the straight pull action, the fact that I may be able to simply rebarrel it with a 300 Blackout barrel is somewhat compelling.

I have no experience with the Troy PAR, but I have had mixed experience with a pump anything other than a shotgun. The button at the bottom of the trigger guard in order to rack the pump action seems like something that can be problematic.

Maybe there's a better option for a 300 Blackout rifle out there.
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I have a PAR in .300 BLK and it's a fun lightweight rifle and the build quality is good. Downsides are the pump is not practical while rest shooting ofc and that .300 ammo is expensive but I still think that it's a keeper and it should be very reliable.
 
Bastt said:
I have a PAR in .300 BLK and it's a fun lightweight rifle and the build quality is good. Downsides are the pump is not practical while rest shooting ofc and that .300 ammo is expensive but I still think that it's a keeper and it should be very reliable.
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Thanks for the input.

I see a couple of possible viable (read: cheaper) rounds that can be run through it. Looks like PPU 125gr FMJ and S&B 147gr FMJ similar in price with the Federal AE FMJ option (forget the grain but will assume 147 or 150) a few bucks more. What ammo runs best on your Troy from your experience?
 
thegazelle said:
Thanks for the input.

I see a couple of possible viable (read: cheaper) rounds that can be run through it. Looks like PPU 125gr FMJ and S&B 147gr FMJ similar in price with the Federal AE FMJ option (forget the grain but will assume 147 or 150) a few bucks more. What ammo runs best on your Troy from your experience?
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I think I've only ran Federal AE FMJ 150gr and Hornady 125gr HP but both without a single issue and good accuracy.
 
I think if MRA slightly adjusted the receiver to be hk416 profile, it could easily have enough room for an op rod and pump action.

Australia already has 3 version of it.
 
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