A CZ 457 LRP BLACK CZ 457 LRP is worth a third more than a CZ MTR 22 LR MATCH ?

[Big Bad]

So I'm not at all familiar with CZ rimfires but as a way to lift those winter blahs am considering brightening up my soon-to-be spare vault space with one. Looking at a local supplier, I find that a "CZ - 457 LRP BLACK - LONG RANGE PRECISION" rifle is listed for $500 more than their "CZ - 457 varmint - MTR 22 LR MATCH 20".

I do see that the 457 LRP advertises having special long range accuracy features, including a muzzle compensator and special ramped rail, but can anyone tell me if the extra expense will likely pay off in any meaningful way? I'm talking about performance of course, not about impressing perhaps 2 people at the club over a 10 year period with my superior discernment in rifle selection.

 

[45CAT]

Think the money is in the stock

 

[Kezh1729]

No, barrel and action are exactly the same.

 

[rubberdonuts]

LRPs come with fluted barrels, Muzzle device, QD flush cup & Adjustable stocks. Totally worth an extra 500 if you’re into that sort of thing. The adjustability of the stock is a justifiable edge over the standard MTR stock. The price of the difference you could invest in an MDT XRS or other chassis that isn’t made of wood. That’s the route I’d take but the choice is yours.

Edit. LRP stock is Synthetic.

 

[Hardhammer]

Lrp barrel have the cool factor with fluting and brake, but i end up buying an mtr, bedding the original stock, then decided for a bravo chassis, much more adjustability than lrp, and a ton of add on if you like that, and yes it shoots well against lrp.
(2 friends i shoot with at the club both got lrp, we often challenge each others )

 

[Grantmac]

Not worth it

 

[grauhanen]

I do see that the 457 LRP advertises having special long range accuracy features, including a muzzle compensator and special ramped rail, but can anyone tell me if the extra expense will likely pay off in any meaningful way? I'm talking about performance of course, not about impressing perhaps 2 people at the club over a 10 year period with my superior discernment in rifle selection.

While the supplied canted rail helps make possible longer distance shooting, one can be added to any CZ 457.

The muzzle compensator is there for looks only. If it improved accuracy performance at long distances, it would also improve accuracy at shorter ranges. No one should think a compensator is designed to advance accuracy.

 

[adamg]

The 457 LRP made some sense at $1300, which was its price for 2-3 years. At $1700 I definitely would not buy one. I would buy a sporter for $650 and put a chassis and IBI barrel on it and have a much better rifle.

 

[rar]

a muzzle brake on a 22. really.

 

[Hardhammer]

Those are nasty, lib say it make thing explode

 

[Buck1950]

Does that brake make the flutes easier to play ??

 

[Mulby]

Looking forward to spring to give mine a go. All the specs checked all my boxes.

 

[skwerl]

LRPs come with fluted barrels, Muzzle device, QD flush cup & Adjustable stocks. Totally worth an extra 500 if you’re into that sort of thing. The adjustability of the stock is a justifiable edge over the standard MTR stock. The price of the difference you could invest in an MDT XRS or other chassis that isn’t made of wood. That’s the route I’d take but the choice is yours.

''Ditto'' rubberdonuts , MTR is the route .

Tho I did buy my MTR's (.17 HMR & .22lr) because I really , really like
the wooden stocks & Match barrels.
... skwerl

 

[Big Bad]

While the supplied canted rail helps make possible longer distance shooting, one can be added to any CZ 457.

The muzzle compensator is there for looks only. If it improved accuracy performance at long distances, it would also improve accuracy at shorter ranges. No one should think a compensator is designed to advance accuracy.

So tiny differences at short range aren't greatly magnified at long ranges?

 

[grauhanen]

So tiny differences at short range aren't greatly magnified at long ranges?

Tiny differences of improved performance at short range may translate into improvement at long range -- but they don't always work out that way. Some lots (not brands or varieties) of good match ammo perform better than others as distance increases. In other words, dispersion rates (how much group sizes increase with distance) can easily vary from one lot to the next, even with the same variety of ammo such as Center X.

But that's not the issue here. If sticking a random weight like a compensator on the end of a barrel actually improved performance, they would be used as a matter of course. And clearly they are not.

Shooters shouldn't expect an arbitrary weight screwed on a muzzle to improve accuracy performance at short or long range. It may by lottery-winning random chance improve performance, but it's more likely to be neutral or possibly degrade performance.

A compensator shouldn't be confused with an adjustable tuner, which doesn't work simply because it's on a muzzle. A tuner is a weight that can be moved in tiny increments beyond the end of the barrel's muzzle. It has to be carefully adjusted to achieve the best weight past the muzzle -- and they only work to improve the performance of ammo that's already performing very well.

For a compensator to function as a properly set tuner, it would need to be exactly the right weight at the right distance beyond the muzzle. Neither compensators nor tuners are a shortcut solution to improve accuracy. And it's worth noting that tuners aren't generally expected to be effective on a relatively short 20" barrel such as that on the CZ 457 LRP.

 

[ben777lemay]

What is dissappointing with the LRP is the stock made out of wood :/

 

[Mystic Precision]

Must be doing something wrong cause I have no problem using a 'brake' to act as a tuner.

the biggest downside is you have to create your own reference points so you know where and how much you are adjusting. Tuner makes that much easier with all the engraved markings... but with a little care and patience, you can move this 'weight' precisely.

Last barrel I helped set up, we went through a stack of brakes of varying weights until one happened to do what we wanted when screwed down... it was like 'MAGIC'.

May not work for next lot of ammo but he has plenty of current lot and we do have lock washers.

Somethings just dont need to be complicated... when you understand what you are mechanically trying to achieve.

If you really want to go Ghetto, hose clamps and wheel weights.... you are just trying to see if there is an affect and how much mass you need to get it.

Jerry

 

[grauhanen]

Must be doing something wrong cause I have no problem using a 'brake' to act as a tuner.

the biggest downside is you have to create your own reference points so you know where and how much you are adjusting. Tuner makes that much easier with all the engraved markings... but with a little care and patience, you can move this 'weight' precisely.

The claim that a brake or compensator can be adjusted to work as effectively as a tuner is for the credulous. It might be more believable if there was any supporting evidence.

It's not possible to move a brake or compensator like a the weight on a tuner. It's not possible except by random luck that a compensator or brake will have the required weight the exact distance from the end of the muzzle.

A compensator or brake such as that on the CZ 457 is 1/2 X 20 UNF and has 20 threads per inch. If 1/2" of the muzzle is threaded, ten revolutions removes the muzzle device altogether. (The CZ compensator or brake is shown below.)

The most commonly used tuner used by those who use them most (RFBR shooters) is likely the Harrell tuner (shown below). It clamps on the end of the barrel. The weight on the tuner moves a total of 0.5" to when it's screwed all the way out. There are 500 increments during that 0.5" of movement. That means the tuner weight moves 0.001" with each "click" over 20 complete revolutions. And there's no risk that tuner weight falls off. That's moving the weight precisely.

 

[Mystic Precision]

I always love when a story is created to 'prove' a narrative.... that be some good science right there.

For me, my 'hunk of metal' seems to move just fine on a thread and in very small increments too. And I must be even more lucky, cause I have yet to move my tuners 10 revolutions to get results.

Based on my scale, my gravity isn't biased to price or shape.... but it might elsewhere.

I guess without the fancy, it just can't work... especially if it doesn't have laser engraved markings and come out of a boxed labled TUNER.



Jerry

PS... don't tell mr. G but a tuner doesn't need to extend beyond the muzzle to work. In fact, a popular maker designed his specifically to work BEHIND the muzzle... and he has good reasons for why. But, let's not make up stories....

 

[grauhanen]

I always love when a story is created to 'prove' a narrative.... that be some good science right there.

For me, my 'hunk of metal' seems to move just fine on a thread and in very small increments too. And I must be even more lucky, cause I have yet to move my tuners 10 revolutions to get results.

Based on my scale, my gravity isn't biased to price or shape.... but it might elsewhere.

I guess without the fancy, it just can't work... especially if it doesn't have laser engraved markings and come out of a boxed labled TUNER.



Jerry

PS... don't tell mr. G but a tuner doesn't need to extend beyond the muzzle to work. In fact, a popular maker designed his specifically to work BEHIND the muzzle... and he has good reasons for why. But, let's not make up stories....

Jerry, although you've said otherwise, it often sounds like you've never really used a genuine RF barrel tuner.

It's true that tuners don't require laser engraving to work. What's critically important to be able to repeatably and reliably set a tuner to the same setting for every outing. Your brake/compensator as tuner is not able to do that. Telling readers that brakes and compensators are useful and effective as tuners does them a disservice and casts doubt on the trustworthiness of what you say.

Regarding the location of the movable weight, while the movable weight that alters the behaviour of the barrel doesn't need to extend beyond the muzzle, the vast majority of those that are used do extend the weight past the muzzle. This is because a precisely placed weight beyond the muzzle has greater influence on the barrel/ammo performance than weight behind the muzzle. This is why mid-barrel tuners are now largely a thing of the past and are not usually seen.

You could dispell doubts by putting your money where your mouth is. Instead of making unsupported claims, show readers the evidence that your brake/compensator works as effectively as an actual rimfire barrel tuner.

To be sure, in a recently active thread you've shown readers one time how well your rifle with a brake/compensator shoots. In three ten shot groups at 100 with Lapua X-Act, it achieved an average of 1.29". Yours was one of several entries using muzzle devices.

In the 100 yard challenge, of the 38 entries, including yours, six (perhaps seven) used muzzle devices, either compensators/brakes or genuine tuners. The three entries with real tuners all had sub 1" averages for three ten shot groups; none of those with compensators/brakes did better. Your 1.29" average was the largest average of entries using brakes/compensators. (There may be a seventh with a muzzle device. If memory serves, Rabid's custom CZ 455 has Harrel a tuner and it posted a sub-1" average. So it may be that four tuners had sub-1" averages.)

The best three group average of 0.747" was achieved by a newer forum member using a rifle with no muzzle device. In fact, very good results can be achieved without muzzle devices of any kind. What's key is a good barrel and good ammo and knowing when to shoot and when not to.