This meat loss THING ?is totally controlled by the Bullet not the caliber or cartridge ! depending on explosive - fragile the bullet is . RJ
Bull elk / rifle / cartridge / bullet
- Thread starter Spruster
- Start date
Jim, there are all kinds of good elk cartridges.
Well, yes and no Jim. In many cases, cartridge selection determines bullet behaviour.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
The larger calibers with higher sectional density (SD is the key here) are capable of better penetration. On a full broadside shot this isn't super important...until the animal takes a step and your tight behind the shoulder shot placement turns into a shot through the shoulder blade. Or if the animal is at an angle, either toward or away, then you want a bullet with a high enough SD and sufficient velocity to get the penetration that you need. A 180gr bullet in a 308 versus the same bullet in a 300WM will perform much differently due to the 500 FPS difference in velocity. The 308 simply won't penetrate the same as the 300.
To get a similar SD with a 270 you need to run a 150gr bullet.. But that decrease in velocity creates a significant decrease in energy and momentum...35% less energy and 25% less momentum. That equates to less penetration. Even if you run the lighter bullet faster, say at 270 Weatherby velocities, it cannot equal the momentum of the heavier bullet. A person has to decide whether they want to plan for the worst case scenario or not. Your expected shot distance and angles play a part in deciding what cartridge to use. Going on an elk hun in an area where you expect lots of opportunity and have the chance to pass up an animal because the presentation isn't perfect? Then absolutely, take your favourite 257 Roberts or 308 Winchester. Going on a once-in-a-lifetime hunt where you have laid out a ton of cash to hunt a premium area and you REALLY want to take, not just any elk, but THE elk home with you? Maybe you want to opt for one of the larger rifles in your cabinet so that you feel more comfortable taking a quartering away shot at 300 yards.
The nature of the hunt and terrain should dictate your choice of rifles. I could choose my ATRS-built 300 Winchester with it's 5.5-22x scope for eastern whitetails just as easily as I could my custom Mauser 7x57. But the 300 weighs in at 13 lbs or more and has a 29" heavy barrel. Makes posting up inside my deer blind (think glorified outhouse) and getting the damned thing out the window much more difficult, all in the name of a maximum 50 yard shot. But that little Mauser with it's 18" barrel and 3x Leupold scope is absolutely perfect for the job. It's makes my buddy's Model 7 look like a farm implement. But if we were to take the same two rifles out to the parkland of Alberta and hunt the ostensibly same whitetail deer, the 300 would be a far better choice. The scenario could just as easily be applied to elk or moose...both rifles are absolutely capable of handling the chore and I would use either with equal enthusiasm, but which one would be the best choice depends entirely on the nature of the area you intend to hunt.
elk have a bit of a stigma of being bullet proof only because of how they react to hits, especially poor hits, they put the miles on quickly, great endurance, great adrenaline...moose on the other hand with similar poor hit will typically stop inside of 80 yards, stand or laydown in which case look like wimps by comparison to elk, but hit them both fatally elk still likely get a little further than moose too because of how they are wired to react
pathfinder said it best early, a bulk of the cartridges/bullets we generally use are great for elk, way more up to the shooter/hunter than anything else
not hard to find a ~.25 sd bullet of appropriate construction for game intended launched and landed within velocity windows and distances to make that bullet work properly...for game intended, so many cartridges and bullets to choose from can do this, you can push less sd and tougher construction and higher speeds, you can push way higher sd and lighter construction at slower speeds also....majority of choices will be in the middle of those more extreme ends of the spectrum, you can do it with 30 grains of powder to sky is the limit, there are options all across the spectrum
also, if guys only ever use traditional 30-06 or magnums and never tried any other formula's they can only tell you what works, but they can't really tell you if other options also work...keep that in mind, there are many who don't do much trial and error, just no interest to play with that, and no big deal, so absorb the reports and info you can find from those who live in all variables or those who live at different variables, ie; the old timer with the .243 win and 100 gr partitions that crushed everything to 300 yards for decades etc., don't try and tell that guy what he does won't work good for elk lol
pathfinder said it best early, a bulk of the cartridges/bullets we generally use are great for elk, way more up to the shooter/hunter than anything else
not hard to find a ~.25 sd bullet of appropriate construction for game intended launched and landed within velocity windows and distances to make that bullet work properly...for game intended, so many cartridges and bullets to choose from can do this, you can push less sd and tougher construction and higher speeds, you can push way higher sd and lighter construction at slower speeds also....majority of choices will be in the middle of those more extreme ends of the spectrum, you can do it with 30 grains of powder to sky is the limit, there are options all across the spectrum
also, if guys only ever use traditional 30-06 or magnums and never tried any other formula's they can only tell you what works, but they can't really tell you if other options also work...keep that in mind, there are many who don't do much trial and error, just no interest to play with that, and no big deal, so absorb the reports and info you can find from those who live in all variables or those who live at different variables, ie; the old timer with the .243 win and 100 gr partitions that crushed everything to 300 yards for decades etc., don't try and tell that guy what he does won't work good for elk lol
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Yup.
No more oxygen reaching brain, that is that. Doesn't matter how "tough" an animal is. Stop the heart/lungs from functioning, it has a whole 4 seconds or so until its down and out. Don't do that? Its gonna run.
Goes for all critters.
Maybe the elk can use those 4 seconds much more energetically lol. But still.
- Location
- Barrie Ont. Canada
- Location
- Western Manitoba
Perhaps you are describing the difference between a "killing" shot and a "stopping" shot. In that four seconds, some game can get into crap that will take you hours to get it out from - water, swamp, willows, downhill. Or, if it is coming at you, it will very well kill you with a claw swipe or a kick as it goes past - "dead" on it's feet. So sometimes, you want to "stop" it - not to go any more - usually means to break structure, so that it can no longer go any further. Usually a "stopping" shot is very hard to do - needs fairly precise placement to do the job - more so than just to "kill" the thing - eventually. I have in mind like a cow moose charging you to protect her calf - you likely need to do more than just "kill" it.
In that one in a million circumstance, I assume you'd need to make like Peter Capstick and drop the beast at your feet, and make a witty quip to your gunbearer before shakily attempting to light a cigarette 
Its a wonder more hunters aren't kicked to death lol.
But I agree, you can definitely shoot with the aim of physically breaking and animal down and destroying infrastructure it needs to remain standing as well as kill it. In all seriousness, for sure, sometimes hunters put shots on animals that are DANG close too and you never know how they are gonna react. Bowhunters get away with it though lol.
Its a wonder more hunters aren't kicked to death lol. But I agree, you can definitely shoot with the aim of physically breaking and animal down and destroying infrastructure it needs to remain standing as well as kill it. In all seriousness, for sure, sometimes hunters put shots on animals that are DANG close too and you never know how they are gonna react. Bowhunters get away with it though lol.
- Location
- Drayton Valley, AB
I find it interesting that even Craig Boddington, arguably one of today's most experienced and respected hunting and shooting writers out there, has changed his opinion on the best elk cartridge over the past 3 decades.
In the beginning (at least of my reading his articles) his opinion was that the 338 Win Mag was THE best elk cartridge. Although he did profess that he really liked the performance of his 8mm Remington Magnum for elk as well.
Today, he recommends a big 30 as THE best elk cartridge. (300 magnum of any variation - 300 Win Mag, 300 H&H, 300 WSM, 300 Wby, 300 PRC, 300RUM, etc.)
As per my previous post, I have used magnum and non magnum cartridges for elk, and both have worked, and have found better performance overall with magnums, given the variables encountered in the field. I like and appreciate the margin for error. Despite best intentions, things do not always go as planned.
In the beginning (at least of my reading his articles) his opinion was that the 338 Win Mag was THE best elk cartridge. Although he did profess that he really liked the performance of his 8mm Remington Magnum for elk as well.
Today, he recommends a big 30 as THE best elk cartridge. (300 magnum of any variation - 300 Win Mag, 300 H&H, 300 WSM, 300 Wby, 300 PRC, 300RUM, etc.)
As per my previous post, I have used magnum and non magnum cartridges for elk, and both have worked, and have found better performance overall with magnums, given the variables encountered in the field. I like and appreciate the margin for error. Despite best intentions, things do not always go as planned.
Hunted big game enough to know you can't count on a bang-flop unless you make a CNS shot
Never said it was a good idea. You asked the smallest cartridge for it, I answered. The idea of counting on bang-flops with big game like elk is kinda ridiculous, IMO. Any bullet that strikes head/spine can be counted on. Any other placement cannot.
Yeah but it's not a legal cartridge for big game hunting here in quebec and by "bang flop " i meant doing less than 10yard and stopping...come on .
There are no elk in Quebec either, unless they escape from farms or you found some at the supermarket
And there's no way to guarantee they go nowhere beyond 10 feet either. Its gonna happen, regardless of cartridge, unless you hit brain or spine.
And there's no way to guarantee they go nowhere beyond 10 feet either. Its gonna happen, regardless of cartridge, unless you hit brain or spine.
I've been on several elk hunt during my seven years working in Calgary and i can tell you that when you go through both shoulders of an elk or moose they don't ru away... what is the smallest cartridge that can do just thatat 100m . Thank you
- Location
- West Central Alberta
There are no elk in Quebec either, unless they escape from farms or you found some at the supermarket
And there's no way to guarantee they go nowhere beyond 10 feet either. Its gonna happen, regardless of cartridge, unless you hit brain or spine.
Well there's Elk in Alberta but the .223 is verboten for big game hunting.
Never said it was a good idea, just that its the smallest cartridge thats gonna bang-flop em lol. Was a silly answer to what I thought was a silly question.
"break both shoulders" works great. Til it doesn't, and they still run. Same with going high for spine. You miss, there's no vitals there. Have fun.
Thinking you can count on any cartridge to drop a large animal within 10 feet is just not consistent. You're gonna get runners. Seen enough moose scapulas with bullet holes through them that didn't crack badly enough to keep it from supporting the animal's weight.
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