Looking for a shotgun, any brands to avoid?

[Suther]

Winchester has made decent pumps over the years. Although my preference is the Browning BPS as it can double as a slug gun and is friendly to those who shoot LH.

What makes the BPS able to double as a slug gun better than any of the other guns mentioned?

If I was looking for a pump shotgun I'd be most interested in Winchester model 12's, they can be had for a little bit more than most of the Turkish guns and are of much better quality and will hold their value.

Everyone wants removeable chokes and vent rib barrels these days. I hear great things about the Model 12s but they lack the features most people look for in a modern gun. The older ones won't be compatible with steel shot either. Some newer ones might be? A quick google gives me mixed results on that.

 

[Raton57]

My Weatherby is made in Turkey and seems several grades above my Hatsan and a few other Turkish shotguns I accumulated.

 

[noobte]

I'm pretty sure cannuck is entirely made in turkey, I personally will not buy their stuff. generally avoid anything made in turkey.

 

[Falconflyer]

What makes the BPS able to double as a slug gun better than any of the other guns mentioned?




Everyone wants removeable chokes and vent rib barrels these days. I hear great things about the Model 12s but they lack the features most people look for in a modern gun. The older ones won't be compatible with steel shot either. Some newer ones might be? A quick google gives me mixed results on that.

You can't put steel through a full choke, everyone (for the most part) knows that. It really depends what you want to do, after almost 30 years of sporting clays and 50 years of hunting I can tell you that choke selection is mostly overrated but if you really need interchangeable chokes then have the barrel threaded and you will still have a much better gun than most Turkish offerings.

 

[Arietta]

If I was looking for a pump shotgun I'd be most interested in Winchester model 12's, they can be had for a little bit more than most of the Turkish guns and are of much better quality and will hold their value.

I like my Model 12 but it's not a great recommendation for someone's first pump gun. They haven't been a regular production gun for almost 60 years other than a few small runs and the Miroku guns versions in Japan. Parts may be hard to find and there are very few accessories made for them.

 

[DaMikey]

Have a serious look at the new 870 Fieldmasters that are being made by Remarms. See a couple in person and they are nice pumps. Tenda has them on sale right now as well for a decent price.

 

[Falconflyer]

I like my Model 12 but it's not a great recommendation for someone's first pump gun. They haven't been a regular production gun for almost 60 years other than a few small runs and the Miroku guns versions in Japan. Parts may be hard to find and there are very few accessories made for them.

Parts are easier to find than a lot of older gun part are, like I said it depends what you want to do with them, not everyone wants a heat shield, rail and bayonet lug. For someone who wants to hunt or shoot some targets to find out if they are really interested in doing that then it would be hard to go wrong with one but each to his own... if you like Turkish guns then by all means but I don't think parts will be easier to find for them and you may need more of them!

 

[Suther]

You can't put steel through a full choke, everyone (for the most part) knows that. It really depends what you want to do, after almost 30 years of sporting clays and 50 years of hunting I can tell you that choke selection is mostly overrated but if you really need interchangeable chokes then have the barrel threaded and you will still have a much better gun than most Turkish offerings.

Everyone knows not to put steel through a full choke but many guns that are of that vintage are not safe for steel shot regardless of choke.

 

[SigWig]

avoid everything except a benelli nova

 

[MkivSupra]

depends, what kind of shotgun

 

[raypoh]

lol

 

[kamlooky]

Avoid anything stamped Noringkoe.

 

[Brutus]

I am not really sure Ithaca is back into full production?

 

[Falconflyer]

Everyone knows not to put steel through a full choke but many guns that are of that vintage are not safe for steel shot regardless of choke.

You are entirely correct and frankly I don't care what the OP buys but to be clear, in 4 pages of posts he makes no indication of what he wants to do with the shotgun. Maybe he wants to hunt waterfowl but maybe he just wants to shoot informal clay targets in his backyard, never has he stated that he wants to put steel though it.

When steel shot first came out both Remington and Browning stated that steel was ok to use in their modern guns as long as it was smaller than #2 shot but not with full chokes. I don't know if they still have that opinion but I wouldn't be surprised if it has changed since steel shells have gotten faster in an attempt to make them perform more like lead and high velocity is definitely harder on barrels. There was also a concern for barrel scoring with steel but most of the ammo manufacturers are using wads with thicker walls to prevent that and also hold the shot together longer for tighter patterns, these thick wads do protect the barrel walls better. I wouldn't go as far as to encourage someone to put steel through a model 12 but I wouldn't be afraid to do it with the appropriate choke either.

 

[0faustus0]

Avoid anything stamped Noringkoe.

I like those tanks .... some of those 870 clones were better built than some 870 Express I saw from the Freedom Group days ....

 

[Suther]

You are entirely correct and frankly I don't care what the OP buys but to be clear, in 4 pages of posts he makes no indication of what he wants to do with the shotgun. Maybe he wants to hunt waterfowl but maybe he just wants to shoot informal clay targets in his backyard, never has he stated that he wants to put steel though it.

When steel shot first came out both Remington and Browning stated that steel was ok to use in their modern guns as long as it was smaller than #2 shot but not with full chokes. I don't know if they still have that opinion but I wouldn't be surprised if it has changed since steel shells have gotten faster in an attempt to make them perform more like lead and high velocity is definitely harder on barrels. There was also a concern for barrel scoring with steel but most of the ammo manufacturers are using wads with thicker walls to prevent that and also hold the shot together longer for tighter patterns, these thick wads do protect the barrel walls better. I wouldn't go as far as to encourage someone to put steel through a model 12 but I wouldn't be afraid to do it with the appropriate choke either.

4 pages? I'm still on page 1, will be for another 65 posts lol

As for what Browning says, they are nice enough to give a decent explanation of what guns are/are not suitable for steel: https://www.browning.com/support/faq/shoot-steel-shot.html

I can't find anything quite as detailed for Winchester. I did find this though: https://en.winchester.eu/steel/

Which seems to basically say if its not threaded for chokes, only use "standard pressure" steel shot, which would greatly limit your options as most steel shot loads are "high performance".


You are correct in that the OP doesn't say what he wants to do. Given that lack of information it seems only reasonable to me to warn him about a potential lack of suitability with steel shot.

 

[BigUglyMan]

4 pages? I'm still on page 1, will be for another 65 posts lol

I was just going to say the same thing. 10 post pages are for people not nearly interested enough in the topic to call themselves "GunNutz"! Throwback to the old dial-up days that many don't even remember anymore.

You are correct in that the OP doesn't say what he wants to do. Given that lack of information it seems only reasonable to me to warn him about a potential lack of suitability with steel shot.

Seems to me that whenever a new guy asks what pump they should get, the common sense answer is to buy a good used 870 and then sell it off when your tastes change. The hold their value and they just plain work. Why overcomplicate things?

 

[Suther]

I was just going to say the same thing. 10 post pages are for people not nearly interested enough in the topic to call themselves "GunNutz"! Throwback to teh old dial-up days that many don't even remember anymore.



Seems to me that whenever a new guy asks what pump they should get, the common sense answer is to buy a good used 870 and then sell it off when your tastes change. The hold their value and they just plain work. Why overcomplicate things?

Same can be said for the Mossberg 500/Maverick 88. They are one of the few guns that haven't seen much in the way of price increases over the last decade, they were about $250 when I bought my 88 almost a decade ago and you can still find 'em on sale for under $300.

 

[Falconflyer]

Same can be said for the Mossberg 500/Maverick 88. They are one of the few guns that haven't seen much in the way of price increases over the last decade, they were about $250 when I bought my 88 almost a decade ago and you can still find 'em on sale for under $300.

If your advocating a pre screw in choke tube 870 then your advocating for all of the things your against in the m12. Not to take anything away from the 870 but I'll take an m12 over one of those anytime.

 

[Suther]

If your advocating a pre screw in choke tube 870 then your advocating for all of the things your against in the m12. Not to take anything away from the 870 but I'll take an m12 over one of those anytime.

I'm a mossberg guy, so I'm not advocating for a Remington anything. I also don't advocate for fixed chokes unless you've got a specific niche you're trying to fill. Shotguns are inherently versatile guns, and being able to change chokes only furthers that versatility. If you're looking for just one gun (which certainly seems to be the case for the OP) then removeable choke tubes just makes sense IMO.