Suppressors are illegal in Canada

[Dukester]

"Without bias"? You mean like without the sort of bias Ian is demonstrating, where the sound of the shot is dramatically louder than the sound of the brass on the grass or the bullets hitting the berm? He's listening for those things, unconsciously filtering out the sound of the firearm itself, much as musicians do routinely when playing in large ensembles, or as one does when having a conversation with someone in a noisy club - it is essentially that we are able to focus our hearing, to discriminate between different sounds and find the ones which have meaning for us. In this case it is meaningful, of course, that one can in fact hear those other noises... but please don't forget that the MP5SD has never been reported as emitting less sound pressure than 125dB, even with the quietest of subsonic loads. And 125dB is loud. Just not as loud as the firearm would be if fired without the suppressor mounted, which would be well in excess of 155dB, territory where hearing damage can happen with a single shot fired.

Exact use of language becomes important in technical matters. More so in a case like this, where not only subjective hearing, but also legal elements and propaganda by highly motivated parties becomes involved. If you casually say that an MP5SD shooting subsonics is 'silent' then you can count on that sort of statement being used to further justify banning of suppressors. They'll just throw it on the heap of out of context, manipulated, and otherwise contorted information. A suppressed 9mm firearm with a good suppressor on it, shooting subsonic ammunition, is indeed a lot quieter than a legal, unsuppressed Canadian firearm shooting the same ammunition. But it is far, FAR from silent.

You misquote Ian and me. You completely miss that the ammo need not be subsonic in the SD. Ya language is important.
Did Ian alter the sound effects to make his video?? Is he dishonest?

Suppressor 's were banned in Canada because of
The various Provincial Hunting Acts during the 1920's

On a personal basis I want to hear the trespassing pricks if they take a chance on hunting my place illegally. Lazy sneaky poacher pricks. Too lazy to use bows. Usually.

 

[GerardSamija]

You misquote Ian and me. You completely miss that the ammo need not be subsonic in the SD. Ya language is important.
Did Ian alter the sound effects to make his video?? Is he dishonest?



On a personal basis I want to hear the trespassing pricks if they take a chance on hunting my place illegally. Lazy sneaky poacher pricks. Too lazy to use bows. Usually.

I fail to see he need to strawman what I've said. The "so what you're saying is" approach is better left to BBC reporters.

I did not suggest either you or Ian were lying. In fact I explained rather carefully the dynamics and perceptions and recorded results involved. The recording makes it obvious that the firearm itself makes vastly more noise than the brass/bullet impact sounds. Ian simply points out that he can hear those sounds, which come after the blast noise, not during. Do you understand my point?

 

[firebat]

Gangsters don't want suppressors because they like to keep their handguns concealed. It's a lot harder to conceal a Glock with a 'booster' and 6" or longer suppressor mounted. So why bother? Besides, acquiring one legally in the USA takes a long time and submitting paperwork and a background check.
They want no part of that.

That further proves my point of allowing suppressors for PAL holders. Heck, UK of all places allows them. And it's that place where they want to ban butter knives.

 

[GerardSamija]

That further proves my point of allowing suppressors for PAL holders. Heck, UK of all places allows them. And it's that place where they want to ban butter knives.

The UK allows suppressed firearms, but they banned pistols, the only exceptions being those which have enormously long rods permanently attached to them and generally very long barrels as well. I'm not clear on the rules exactly, but the things look absurd. And of course, meanwhile, criminals use illegal, imported handguns all the time in the UK. It's common. As they do in Australia, which has similarly restrictions. And homemade submachine guns are commonly confiscated by Australian police, though it has been illegal for Australians to own submachine guns for decades. Go figure.

 

[firebat]

The UK allows suppressed firearms, but they banned pistols, the only exceptions being those which have enormously long rods permanently attached to them and generally very long barrels as well. I'm not clear on the rules exactly, but the things look absurd. And of course, meanwhile, criminals use illegal, imported handguns all the time in the UK. It's common. As they do in Australia, which has similarly restrictions. And homemade submachine guns are commonly confiscated by Australian police, though it has been illegal for Australians to own submachine guns for decades. Go figure.

Suppressors are very easy to manufacture, so anyone who wants one for illegal use can make it in their garage.. not exactly a rocket science. But God forbid I own one legally for range plinking use, that's haram.

 

[Rapier46]

Legalize and encourage suppressor use in Canada

 

[Rapier46]

On a personal basis I want to hear the trespassing pricks if they take a chance on hunting my place illegally. Lazy sneaky poacher pricks. Too lazy to use bows. Usually.

If your hearing wasn’t damaged from shooting unsupressed firearms…you’d be able to!

 

[Bfranklin]

The other point they made was they still sound like guns and are not silent. Not true depending on the effort made to suppress.
The most noise made by the MP5SD is the action operating. Now imagine a locked bolt single shot.

Are you serious. Have you EVER shot a suppressed firearm?

Good grief, the naivety...

 

[Bfranklin]

have fired many thousands of rounds out of that weapon and it was a pleasure especially in a kill house. No ear protection.
Go shoot one or maybe watch the video without bias. Like the guy says in the video, brass hitting the ground and rounds impacting the berm.

And sometimes the intent is not to make it as silent as possible, just not sound like a gun shot.

bs.

 

[OkayShooter]

Have fired many thousands of rounds out of that weapon and it was a pleasure especially in a kill house. No ear protection.
Go shoot one or maybe watch the video without bias. Like the guy says in the video, brass hitting the ground and rounds impacting the berm.

And sometimes the intent is not to make it as silent as possible, just not sound like a gun shot.

Umm hearing damage can occur over 80 DB, a suppressor doesnt quiet it under that, you're still experiences over 100-110 DB. I shot 1000s of rounds thru MGs and I don't need ear protection. Oh wait because the damage has been done

 

[Tokay444]

Here in Poland suppressors are just a thing you can buy, like any other thing you can buy. My buddy has industry connections so he was able to get one for me at a good price. I picked it up from him at a pizzeria...

Did I mention machine guns? We got those too... I picked up my second machine gun in a parking lot, for cash...

But the really funny thing is... with suppressors, machine guns, gun stores and shooting ranges galore (I think there are at least 20 gun ranges in town), there are like ZERO shootings in this country. Maybe some dispute between some old drunkards using black powder revolvers...

And remember, in Poland, there are hidden weapons EVERYWHERE. There are stories in the news practically every week about how "Babcia's" old house was getting renovated and they found some guns, or ammo or grenades hidden in the floors or in the walls... and after WW2 people hid weapons all over the country in anticipation of fighting the communist occupiers. Heck when you go fishing, you have just as good of a chance as "catching" an MG42 as a fish... sometimes you might even catch a PANTHER.

Plus during the communist era, it was no problem to bribe soldiers with vodka and cigarettes for weapons...

And STILL no mass shootings, no terrorist attacks, nothing! Y'all need to find out what the "Polish Secret" is...

Here, some guns that escaped Trudeau... first, a suppressed C7A2!

As a person who was once tasked with locating a full-auto MP5, I can tell you that getting anything full auto out of a German company is a real PIA, on account of all the German export regulations. Look at all the issues that popped up with supplying German-origin weapons to Ukraine. And they are expensive as all hell. Eventually we cobbled something together using a Pakistani Ordnance MP5, and some other HK products we had lying around.

-----------------------------

See... "Fishing" in Poland...

2003: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v62WFFseneg

And again a few days ago! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgbZ-f_iG8c

I think their secret is that they said, "#### NO!" to importing crime.

 

[joe6167]

I think their secret is that they said, "#### NO!" to importing crime.

You might be on to something

 

[joe6167]

Something I like to show when discussing Suppressors is this video, working with a large pneumatic grease gun, because it poses the same problem as gunfire, that is, highly pressurized gas venting to the atmosphere.

That highly pressurized gas still has to go somewhere. And this grease gun was LOUD.

Another point to consider. Subsonic ammunition has significantly limited range and the bullets travel in a much wider trajectory than supersonic ammunition of the same calibre.

Other sources of noise:
-Supersonic crack of supersonic bullets
-Brass hitting the floor
-Action cycling (pretty loud in itself, if you're shooting suppressed near people, all those clicks and clacks of triggers resetting and action cycling is going to be heard by everyone.

Look at the measures that Special forces take to make REALLY quiet guns. Measures such as locking the action so that it doesn't cycle when a shot is taken, as well as the use of solid wipes in the suppressor, instead of baffles. The bullet has to shoot through the wipes, so the effect is lost after a few shots, as the bullets destroy the wipes.

The famous John Wick suppressor battle ABSOLUTELY breaks my heart, it's so ridiculous.

You mean to tell me that NO ONE can SMELL all the gun powder randomly wafting through the air... or sees or hears brass falling... never mind the "clack, clack, clack" of the action...?

And with that grip and sight picture, and that distance, how is Common now mowing down all kinds of random people? I've seen people get ZERO hits on a target at 5m on daily basis...

Situational Awareness: Ask Your Doctor If It's Right For You

Oh yes, and when shooting suppressed you tend to get a lot more crap hitting you in the face, and those gasses really sting your eyes.

I haven't scientifically confirmed this, but I suspect that are limits to how a well a semi-automatic firearm can be suppressed, on account of all the backpressure that gets released when the action cycles.

 

[gunlover03]

A suppressor is simply a muffler for a gun. Same as a car. No more, no less. Basically ,hearing protection. Politics and Hollywood to thank for them not being allowed in this f@cked up country.

If only hollywood would stop making stupid shoot them up movies that are truly unrealistic
and have educated smart politicians that can see through bull####.
we would be better off

 

[gunlover03]

I think their secret is that they said, "#### NO!" to importing crime.

for sure also take out the young offenders act

 

[Dukester]

Are you serious. Have you EVER shot a suppressed firearm?

Good grief, the naivety...

bs.

Nope, likely the only person commenting in this thread with any credible experience with MP5SD.

There are tactical options afforded by the SD that made us make the extra expenditure and deploy it considering it's drawbacks.

( Yeah , because it was soooo loud !!!! )

Not going to discuss those tactics on a forum like this for obvious reasons.

 

[Dukester]

I fail to see he need to strawman what I've said. The "so what you're saying is" approach is better left to BBC reporters.

I did not suggest either you or Ian were lying. In fact I explained rather carefully the dynamics and perceptions and recorded results involved. The recording makes it obvious that the firearm itself makes vastly more noise than the brass/bullet impact sounds. Ian simply points out that he can hear those sounds, which come after the blast noise, not during. Do you understand my point?

Check 2:30 in Ians video " I shouldn't be needing these! "

pfffft pfffft pfffft

 

[apexanimal]

The other point they made was they still sound like guns and are not silent. Not true depending on the effort made to suppress.
The most noise made by the MP5SD is the action operating. Now imagine a locked bolt single shot.

An mp5sd isn't a suppressor. Ive met so many cops like you training and shooting with them over the years, the ones with the biggest mouths were always absolutely dogshlt at the range, so no offense but the fact you diddled the trigger on an mp5 a few times does not make you an expert on suppressors or anything frankly. Theyre safety equipment and should be available to the general public, again i probably need to say this a few more times but an MP5SD isnt a suppressor, and would still be prohibited regardless of whether sound moderators/suppressors are legalized.

 

[Ceiferiro]

Back in Europe (Switzerland) some people consider it to be quite rude to go shooting without a suppressor. Its seens as being inconsiderate to neighbors .

 

[GerardSamija]

An mp5sd isn't a suppressor. Ive met so many cops like you training and shooting with them over the years, the ones with the biggest mouths were always absolutely dogshlt at the range, so no offense but the fact you diddled the trigger on an mp5 a few times does not make you an expert on suppressors or anything frankly. Theyre safety equipment and should be available to the general public, again i probably need to say this a few more times but an MP5SD isnt a suppressor, and would still be prohibited regardless of whether sound moderators/suppressors are legalized.

Oh, he's police? That explains it... I'll not bother arguing with his idiocy and boasts, as there is never any point arguing with a cop about anything: they know they are right, by definition. I think it's part of the application process - they ask if you're always right and wonder why other people are so stupid, and if you check the 'yes' box instead of the 'no' box you're basically hired.