Interest in 100 yard .22LR challenge - 2023 Discussion thread
- Thread starter grauhanen
- Start date
Can't speak for other clubs ... but for us they are timed matches. 30 minutes for the 6 targets. We have various classes of entries ... Benchrest (if shooting off a frontrest and/or a rifle that may be modified and doesn't fall into a factory category. Also hunting rifle, semi-auto & .17hmr. We shoot at 100 m & also 200 m.
That's the general gist .... Horseman2 runs our matches and I'm sure he can articulate further.
It might be a changing wind that caught you -- or even shooter error. Even with absolutely no wind, or wind correctly taken into account, it might be something else. It might be simply a case of these rounds simply not going where they ought to go.
What I mean is that even when wind is uninvolved .22LR bullets can have unusual and unexpected POI that can't be predicted by MV variation. For example, with no wind or air movement or shooter technique variation involved two rounds of match ammo from the same lot and the same MV can easily have different POIs. Faster rounds can strike the target lower than slower ones and vise versa. Vertical spread on target may often be unrelated to MV spread. Without any wind, rounds can strike to the left or right of the POA.
This is easily seen when tracking MV and POI at 100 yards. It occurs at 50 as well but is more difficult to track. While it happens more frequently with entry level match ammos, it also occurs with high end .22LR match ammos. Each of the five different lots of Midas + I've tested have more than a few rounds in every box that don't go where they ought to go. (The same goes for the Center X and RWS Special Match lots tested.)
On a different but perhaps related note, it's often straightforward to tell what a group looks like. It's a number of shots that are grouped close together. Groups will vary in size, even with the same ammo.
Sometimes, for reasons not related to wind or shooter, a group has what is simply an outlier (or two) rather than a flyer. These are rounds with a POI that is not as close to where the other rounds struck. A flyer would seem to be unexpectedly distant from the group.
Which, if any, of the ten shot groups below have a flyer?
Sometimes, for reasons not related to wind or shooter, a group has what is simply an outlier (or two) rather than a flyer. These are rounds with a POI that is not as close to where the other rounds struck. A flyer would seem to be unexpectedly distant from the group.
Which, if any, of the ten shot groups below have a flyer?
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The wind was a deciding factor
Perhaps you should have been running . . . it did not appear to affect the little lady.
An error was discovered later and she would have placed third.
Over time a number of new shooter fail to keep their shots in the scoring rings.
She had one 7 and four 8's.
The above was in reference to my 10.5 year old granddaughter shooting with the men for a first time.
Perhaps you should have been running . . . it did not appear to affect the little lady.
An error was discovered later and she would have placed third.
Over time a number of new shooter fail to keep their shots in the scoring rings.
She had one 7 and four 8's.
The above was in reference to my 10.5 year old granddaughter shooting with the men for a first time.
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I shot a 100 yd target the other night, pretty disappointing. The sun had set and I was chasing the last light. I was using Eley Match and shooting my older Savage MKII in a Boyd's stock with a Bushnell Match Pro and a Harris bipod/squeeze bag.
I know I was rushing myself, and basically just wasting ammo. Had to try anyway.
I know it's not a br rifle, all I set out to do was find a reasonably consistent ammunition to use.
Bang for buck, I think SK might end up being what I choose for everyday use. I'm not sure chasing groups is something I want to pursue, although it is fun to see what I can squeeze out of what I'm using.
I know I was rushing myself, and basically just wasting ammo. Had to try anyway.
I know it's not a br rifle, all I set out to do was find a reasonably consistent ammunition to use.
Bang for buck, I think SK might end up being what I choose for everyday use. I'm not sure chasing groups is something I want to pursue, although it is fun to see what I can squeeze out of what I'm using.
This morning I shot the ten consecutive ten-shot groups seen below.
Only one of the ten was over one inch center-to-center. Except for the bottom left bull on the first target which was in the .8's, all others were in the .6's and .7's
The ten group average was .770".
I shot another two boxes of another lot of ammo. It wasn't nearly as good, with a ten group average of 1.169".
Only one of the ten was over one inch center-to-center. Except for the bottom left bull on the first target which was in the .8's, all others were in the .6's and .7's
The ten group average was .770".
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I shot another two boxes of another lot of ammo. It wasn't nearly as good, with a ten group average of 1.169".
It's disappointing because I can see the potential in the rifle when I shoot a target full of sub-1/2" groups at 50. I know 100 isn't the same as 50, but I know I'm the limiting factor.
I had a perfect opportunity to try it again after work today, not a breath of wind and lots of daylight left when I set up.
My 12 yr old son wanted to shoot with me, so other than shooting a few groups at 50, I turned my rifle over to him and we spent the evening calling shots and dinging the various hanging plates we have set up on our range, finishing off with the KYL rack I built for 100 yds. The smallest target on it is 1", I need to push it further away as it doesn't seem to be much of a challenge for him!
It was a perfect evening.
Thank you. It's been fun to build the rifle and work on getting the best out of it.
Some really impressive shooting going on here with a nice variety of rifles.
I had planned to shoot the 100m monthly @ mission but unfortunately woke up that morning with a bad cough. Should be out at the next one in October. I'm sure it's a very different thing to shoot well in a competition compared to on an empty range. Looking forward to the challenge!
Some really impressive shooting going on here with a nice variety of rifles.
I had planned to shoot the 100m monthly @ mission but unfortunately woke up that morning with a bad cough. Should be out at the next one in October. I'm sure it's a very different thing to shoot well in a competition compared to on an empty range. Looking forward to the challenge!
Ignoring better judgment I took a poke at 100 yds yesterday in the wind and rain.
My rifle seems to be hovering right around that 1" average with Eley Match. Maybe that's as good as it'll get, time will tell.
When I finished I took the rifle apart for drying and cleaning, and noticed I'm getting some contact between the barrel and stock at the forward end.
I probably wouldn't have noticed except for the rattle can paintjob I put on the barreled action a few weeks ago.
Doing some sandpaper clearancing today, and I may look into bedding the action to eliminate a tiny bit of play I found. I check my action screws whenever I take it out, so it wasn't that I shot the action loose.
We'll see if it makes a difference, raining again today though.
Any thoughts? Suggestions appreciated.
My rifle seems to be hovering right around that 1" average with Eley Match. Maybe that's as good as it'll get, time will tell.
When I finished I took the rifle apart for drying and cleaning, and noticed I'm getting some contact between the barrel and stock at the forward end.
I probably wouldn't have noticed except for the rattle can paintjob I put on the barreled action a few weeks ago.
Doing some sandpaper clearancing today, and I may look into bedding the action to eliminate a tiny bit of play I found. I check my action screws whenever I take it out, so it wasn't that I shot the action loose.
We'll see if it makes a difference, raining again today though.
Any thoughts? Suggestions appreciated.
I was out this morning. Nine consecutive sub-1" groups, which doesn't happen too often.
The final group on the bottom right of the third target had a flyer, making it the only group over 1 inch at 1.023" (see left below for outside-to-outside size). The high POI round had an MV of 1064 fps. The nine others below it had MVs from 1039 to 1058 fps. The next largest group was the top left on the first target (see right below for o-t-o size).
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The final group on the bottom right of the third target had a flyer, making it the only group over 1 inch at 1.023" (see left below for outside-to-outside size). The high POI round had an MV of 1064 fps. The nine others below it had MVs from 1039 to 1058 fps. The next largest group was the top left on the first target (see right below for o-t-o size).
Leuchtkafer
Member
Shooting very well for a Savage, not sure how much more performance you can milk out of it from there. There comes a point where it costs big $$ for small gains. Your rifle might be a candidate for a tuner, and it should go without saying that whatever ammo you get can easily go plus or minus from what you're seeing here.
That's not enough MV difference to account for the high impact. Are you shooting with a tuner? Was that the only round above 1060 fps? Sub MOA groups are a good day for rimfire, overall pretty solid set of targets.
All due respect, I find it funny when people say things like it shoots good for a Savage.
I know they are basically the lowest price rimfire available, maybe with the exception of Norinco or the like (and I'm not bashing those, hell I tried the challenge with a TM22). And I've seen folks here poo-pooing them for their name.
After going through this and other similar threads, I kinda wonder how it would do if it were set up as one of the "serious" br guns. If you look at the results in the challenge as an indication of a rifles capabilities, it holds its own when you compare apples to apples.
I don't have an elaborate rest system but I never set out to try beating guys who do.
But if you want to go back in the thread you'll see I did.
I'm using a Harris bipod and a small beanbag under the buttstock. I'll likely never shoot target after target of .6 or .7 groups with my rifle but I do enjoy this challenge as its something new that I never really focused on in my time shooting rimfires.
There are guys who have shot better groups without the aid of mechanical rests, you can see their results here in the forum. Respect to them, those are the guys I'm chasing with my results. I don't care about beating groups that a guy posted from his rifle sitting in a vise.
I think the individual shooter behind the gun is a factor. Two people shooting the same rifle in the same conditions will likely get different results, depending on their experience and technique.
That's good observation about the high impact. The mismatch between POI and MV is why I posted the MV information. (On another note, as I first asked about a week ago, are you the former and now-banned poster, RabidM4U5, posting under a new identity? Many of your posts have content remarkably similar to his.)
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Rimfire shooters often assume that a high impact are because a round is excessively "hot" with a significantly higher MV than other rounds. At the same time, shooters assume an excessively low impact is due to an extra MV. They assume that POI and MV have a consistent and reliable relationship. Although the majority of rounds have a reasonably matching POI/MV relationship, quite often this is not the case.
In fact, after tracking the MV/POI of thousands of rounds of .22LR match ammo this shooting season alone, it's obvious that a round's MV doesn't always determine where it hits the target. Some have a POI much higher or lower than their MV would predict. In fact, faster rounds sometimes have a significantly lower POI than slower ones and slower ones sometimes have a significantly higher POI than faster ones. This happens often enough to affect almost every three group target result. Some of these cases are more egregious than others.
This occurs not only with entry level .22LR match ammos, but also with every higher tier match ammo I've tracked, including five lots of 2022-made Lapua Midas + as well as three of Center X and two of RWS Special Match.
I would also say that it gets good results for a Savage Mark II rifle.
The results posted in the 100 yard challenge thread had very good results, three ten-shot groups averaging .937". That's much more than impressive than shooting a few 1 MOA five-shot groups at either 50 or 100. There aren't many Savage Mark II rifles to successfully achieve the 1/2" 50 yard challenge let alone do well at 100.
What made this exceptional was that they were achieved with SK Standard Plus ammo, which, given its often inconsistent nature, is usually not a candidate to produce such good results -- regardless of the rifle or the shooter.
I wouldn't hesitate to suggest that similar results for other Savage Mark II rifles will be few and far between. Take satisfaction in your achievement. The fact is it's not usual for anyone shooting a mass produced rifle with a mass produced barrel that has a SAAMI sporter chamber. Many of the rifles used by other shooters who've posted entries in the 100 yard challenge have match chambers and they have been using .22LR match ammo from which more consistency can be expected.
