Retain Irons?

[I Dont Care About You]

Are iron sights really needed in this age of durable, reliable optics and red dot sights?

I came up in a time of iron sights and have always had iron sights on my black rifles. I am boxing around the idea of dropping the irons on one of my rifles because I want to add an accessory on top of the rail and there is simply not the room to retain the irons.

Dropping the irons makes me a little concerned because I have always had irons but rationally I think they are not really needed.

 

[mrsmitty]

I decided to ditch my irons on my bren 2. I am running an aimpoint t2. I really don’t think not having irons on it is going to be an issue since I am not shooting at things that shoot back. If it fails I’ll go and grab my irons or a different sight.

 

[rugbydave]

I don't think they're really needed anymore, at least not on rifles that have 2 sighting systems (primary optic and offset red dot). No issues with running them if they fit but in your case, I wouldn't sweat it these days. You'd need both optics to fail for it to matter and also need the primary optic to be on a qd mount to get at the irons quickly. I ran into the same issues not long ago when kitting out a new carbine and the back up irons stayed in the parts bin.

 

[Midnight Rider]

If the option is there , I always keep the irons along with an optic if possible . It never hurts to have irons as back up if your optic becomes damaged for some reason .

 

[55recce]

If my life depended on it I would keep the irons. If I am just going to the range its really a personal choice.

 

[B]

I keep BUIS on all my rifles that would ever be considered for serious work. It's next to nothing for cost, weight or effort and the potential advantage is significant.

 

[greentips]

I keep them on, because they start wandering around and end up in some boxes. The best way to keep track of them is having them on.

 

[zupermann]

I keep BUIS on all my rifles that would ever be considered for serious work. It's next to nothing for cost, weight or effort and the potential advantage is significant.

This!
And if you think your optic may have been knocked off zero, you can use the irons to help re align/verify POI

 

[alpining]

Are iron sights really needed in this age of durable, reliable optics and red dot sights?....

Personally, I wouldn't bother with backup irons unless I couldn't live with the consequences of my optic failing.

For casual use, why bother? For serious use and serious training, maybe. And I guess for LARPing and TEOTWAWKI, yes.

Low and mid-tier optics have a high enough failure rate that it's a very realistic possibility under normal use. Top-tier stuff, if the particular model has a good reputation, has such a low likelihood of failure under typical civilian use that it might not be worth it.

That said, any time you are looking through a glass lens, debris or weather can make any optic completely useless until you take the time to clear the problem. But SURPSISE! The same is true of irons, it's just usually a different kind of problem.

 

[Scotty454]

Mmmmmeh, I don't bother. In the hundreds of people I've seen run through 3-gun matches, I've never seen a single one need to take an optic off and revert to irons. I figure most iron sights are equally or more likely to get knocked out of zero than a properly mounted, quality optic. I've seen guns dropped on scopes and maintain zero without issues. But I don't hunt, so there's not much more at stake for me than the outcome of a match. Maybe it'd be different if I was doing something a little more consequential than competition shooting.

Only way I could see it being a bad thing would be if you had to compromise on your optic mounting solution to be able to co-witness with your irons or something.

 

[Doc Rainbow]

Hunting and scope knocked/busted in wilderness I think iron sights would be a bonus if you can't fix the scope. Son's rifle has iron sights and he doesn't bother with a scope or other optic when hunting. Of course he has 17 year old eyes and a steady hand.... And only shoots out to 150 yards. Which is plenty far where we hunt deer.

 

[I Dont Care About You]

I decided to ditch my irons on my bren 2. I am running an aimpoint t2. I really don’t think not having irons on it is going to be an issue since I am not shooting at things that shoot back. If it fails I’ll go and grab my irons or a different sight.

 

[I Dont Care About You]

I keep BUIS on all my rifles that would ever be considered for serious work. It's next to nothing for cost, weight or effort and the potential advantage is significant.

Cost, weight and effort are not considerations in this case. I want to add a laser and the top of the rail is the best location for that ... which also happens to be the same place the iron sight is currently occupying.

I keep them on, because they start wandering around and end up in some boxes. The best way to keep track of them is having them on.

LOL ... sage advice.

Personally, I wouldn't bother with backup irons unless I couldn't live with the consequences of my optic failing.

For casual use, why bother? For serious use and serious training, maybe. And I guess for LARPing and TEOTWAWKI, yes.

Low and mid-tier optics have a high enough failure rate that it's a very realistic possibility under normal use. Top-tier stuff, if the particular model has a good reputation, has such a low likelihood of failure under typical civilian use that it might not be worth it..

The optic will be an Sig Romeo 7, which all the reviews say is extremely robust.

I was playing around with non-range type scenarios and realized the irons were actually pretty difficult to see in real world lighting conditions. Lighted optics seem to be the best solution to imperfect lighting conditions and targets.

Hunting and scope knocked/busted in wilderness I think iron sights would be a bonus if you can't fix the scope. Son's rifle has iron sights and he doesn't bother with a scope or other optic when hunting. Of course he has 17 year old eyes and a steady hand.... And only shoots out to 150 yards. Which is plenty far where we hunt deer.

Black Rifle, not hunting.

 

[Sniffer]

On a black rifle my vote is for LPVO and offset irons.

Works great on a competition rig (offset irons for close stuff and LPVO dialled to whatever if there are distance targets otherwise LPVO for everything).

Offset secondary optic is tempting but from memory it bumps you to a different class (Open vs Tactical Optics from memory) and there is less to fail on irons.

 

[B]

A laser is a pretty good thing to drop your irons for.

 

[I Dont Care About You]

A laser is a pretty good thing to drop your irons for.

I have never been a favour of lasers on handguns but just recently tried one on a carbine and can totally see the benefit at close ranges and confined quarters.

 

[alpining]

...The optic will be an Sig Romeo 7, which all the reviews say is extremely robust.

I was playing around with non-range type scenarios and realized the irons were actually pretty difficult to see in real world lighting conditions. Lighted optics seem to be the best solution to imperfect lighting conditions and targets....

Well, it's not an Aimpoint Micro... But it sounds like the consequences of it going down are nill.

I agree that for most people an illuminated optic is the best solution for low/no light, but as another option, they do make long gun iron sights with tritium. And of course there is the NODs option.

 

[alpining]

I have never been a favour of lasers on handguns but just recently tried one on a carbine and can totally see the benefit at close ranges and confined quarters.

There's lots of hate for visible laser sighting systems on this site, but I really like them in certain contexts.

Just curious, what's the difference you're observing with using a visible laser on a rifle vs. handgun?


EDIT: good point B, edited to clarify

 

[B]

FWIW I do assume we are talking a PEQ or similar laser.

 

[I Dont Care About You]

Well, it's not an Aimpoint Micro... But it sounds like the consequences of it going down are nill.

I agree that for most people an illuminated optic is the best solution for low/no light, but as another option, they do make long gun iron sights with tritium. And of course there is the NODs option.

Tritium sights don't work in twilight / dusk conditions or when the sun is out but you are under the trees in shade with a dark coloured target.

There's lots of hate for visible laser sighting systems on this site, but I really like them in certain contexts.

Just curious, what's the difference you're observing with using a visible laser on a rifle vs. handgun?


EDIT: good point B, edited to clarify

A laser on a handgun is extremely distracting. It dances around semi-uncontrollably and people tend to focus on the dancing light rather than properly aligning the sights. On a rifle / carbine the laser is much steadier and it allows the gun to be aimed without bringing it up to the eye. Good for close quarters conditions where getting the rifle up to your eyes and aligned on the target may be difficult to impossible.