Neck turning? Is it 1 and done?

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cath8r

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Hey guys. I just have a quick question, it's basic, likely 'dumb' but... is neck turning a 1x process for the life of the case?
I've done it off and on, but haven't gotten into reloading neck turned brass more than 2 more additional times. I typically get 5-7 firings per brass. Does it last the whole brass life?
 
Unless you have a very tight match chamber, it's a waste of time and can actually lead to less case longevity because you're working the neck harder by causing it to expand more into the diameter of your chamber, then sizing it down again so that it has enough tension to hold the bullet in place.
 
Ok. I have new winchester brass. Necks are thick and inconsistent. Wanted to establish a uniform base line. 220 swift if that helps.
 
bearhunter said:
Unless you have a very tight match chamber, it's a waste of time and can actually lead to less case longevity because you're working the neck harder by causing it to expand more into the diameter of your chamber, then sizing it down again so that it has enough tension to hold the bullet in place.
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This depends on the type of sizing operation you are doing. Without a bushing sizing operation I would agree that anything more than a skim for concentricity is unnecessary.
 
I don't bother neck turning everything that I load for but for the ones I do it's just once at the first firing then never again. All I look for is to eliminate thick spots in the neck and don't take much off, at the most I'll remove brass about halfway around the neck but almost never for the full circumference. Winchester brass is pretty inconsistent these days and I'd certainly consider doing it once.
 
I had read that if you find that the neck is thicker on one side than other, that the "flaw" likely goes down entire case wall - into the case body. So, peeling the neck does nothing for within the body. I had tried using a Forster HOT peeler some years ago on a 338 Win Mag and Remington new brass - could not see a difference on targets that I shot with and without the peeling, so I eventually sold off that "peeler" and just measure brass necks, any more - or do not worry about it at all from store bought rifles getting circa 1" five shot groups at 100 yards.

I think I decided that epoxy bedding the receiver, and free-floating the barrel, did more for my group size, then some higher end reloading stuff. I suspect it is border-line heresy to think that the mechanics of the rifle, the quality of the barrel, and the competency of the user has a LOT to do with group size, and a re-loading technique used by a big-name "winner" may or may not offset that. In my case, I have not had much luck seeing that occur.
 
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I use neck turning for making 257 Robt. brass from 30-06. The resulting necks are thick and I can not only uniform the wall thickness but make them the perfect thickness for my rifle. I measure a fired casing neck and make my cases so that a seated bullet has a neck thickness just below that. It is interesting to see just how much difference there can be in neck wall thickness on once fired brass. I would try skimming the necks to see how uniform your brass is.
 
cath8r said:
Sorry, 'skimming' not familiar with that term.
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Adjust the cutter so it doesn’t remove any metal from the thinner parts of the brass and rotate each piece to ‘shave’ or ‘skim’ or ‘skive’ off any thick or high points. Not necessarily turning every single piece down to a much smaller diameter for the sake of complete uniformity.

It is important this is done while the inside diameter fits the pilot of your cutter.
 
cath8r said:
Ok. I have new winchester brass. Necks are thick and inconsistent. Wanted to establish a uniform base line. 220 swift if that helps.
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When you fire those cases they will iron out to consistent thickness without having to turn them and still retain all of their original metal.

There are volumes written about this by some very astute match shooters and the consensus is that if it isn't necessary to chamber your cartridge don't do it unless it just makes you feel better.

I won't tell you not to do it and if it makes you feel better or better yet, you just want to experiment go for it.

I had to try it to convince myself it was an effort in futility when it comes to off the shelf rifles or even rifles whose chambers have been cut with field type reamers, so they can accept any commercial ammo, wherever you get it from.

When I was shooting HBR, it was impossible to chamber a round if the necks weren't turned to fit the ''neck bushing'' in the Wilson Die.

When you're sizing for a match neck and using special dies designed for the job, you're loading for a different configuration in the chamber and shooting under different circumstances.

When shooting some match rifles, you're reducing neck tension to the point that the bullets can be easily pushed back into the neck.

You get away with this because the bullet is seated out long and when you close the bolt the bullet is jammed into the leade and pushed back during the camming action.

Most Match barrels will have chambers cut with reamers ground to special dimensions. Usually, they won't accept a cartridge that hasn't been sized with appropriate to that rifle's chamber dies.

OP, go ahead and experiment, that's part of the fun. Load up ten rounds with unturned necks and ten with turned necks and check the accuracy difference, with the same bullets, same powder and weight and primers from the same lots.

In your case, if I wanted to reduce neck tension, I would use an expander ball a thou or two larger than what the die comes with. If I wanted to increase neck tension, without crimping, then I would use an expander ball a thou or two smaller and maybe bell the case mouth a bit before inserting the bullet, by using an inside chamfering tool so the bullet base won't be shaved.
 
Thanks guys.
The blade isn't set too deep. Also, found some brass hard to fit on the mandrel and so far, out of 45 I've done from 1 package, 2 were cast poorly with a split in the kneck/shoulder.
 
Brass flows after every firing so neck turning (skimming) will also be necessary every firing or two (the higher the pressure, the more often to turn). But so is annealing.

If you are looking for the peak in neck tension consistency, then I would suggest you set up your neck turner to uniform the cases... and then leave it at that setting. Every firing or two, run it over the necks and remove any brass that builds up. Especially at the base of the neck and that avoids the dreaded donut from forming.

You will see that this flow is uneven and not on all cases... but the act of turning ensures that all cases are uniform.

Annealing is important to keep the necks from work hardening but that also keeps it soft so it flows. For me, it is proper maintenance and I do both

Jerry
 
cath8r said:
Thanks guys.
The blade isn't set too deep. Also, found some brass hard to fit on the mandrel and so far, out of 45 I've done from 1 package, 2 were cast poorly with a split in the kneck/shoulder.
Click to expand...

Before turning, ensure that all necks are consistent in tension ... you may have to use an expander mandrel to get that. Varying neck tightness can affect how consistently you cut the necks.. or lead to damage in the neck interior which is a bad thing

I have even annealed the necks if I feel that the tension is overly stiff from the factory.

Jerry
 
Keep in mind when expanding the necks before turning its wise to use the expander from the same outfit as the neck turner. Also I learned you can't expand all the necks in advance as they will slowly spring back and get too tight on the turning mandrel. I got so I would expand a case then turn then go onto the next case .
 
Mystic Precision said:
Brass flows after every firing so neck turning (skimming) will also be necessary every firing or two (the higher the pressure, the more often to turn). But so is annealing.

If you are looking for the peak in neck tension consistency, then I would suggest you set up your neck turner to uniform the cases... and then leave it at that setting. Every firing or two, run it over the necks and remove any brass that builds up. Especially at the base of the neck and that avoids the dreaded donut from forming.

You will see that this flow is uneven and not on all cases... but the act of turning ensures that all cases are uniform.

Annealing is important to keep the necks from work hardening but that also keeps it soft so it flows. For me, it is proper maintenance and I do both

Jerry
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Your advice is great for chambers with custom reamed necks but for commercial off the shelf rifles?????????
 
bearhunter said:
Your advice is great for chambers with custom reamed necks but for commercial off the shelf rifles?????????
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the trend today is to use bushing neck dies of some sort. here the need for consistent neck thickness is really important or addn headaches can be created as a byproduct of these "better" dies.

Brass QC is all over the map. Some new brands like Peterson are doing a great job and brass consistency can be right there with the match brands like Lapua and Norma. however, domestic brands like win and rem can be downright horrid.

so it depends on the brass used, the dies used, the level of reloading sophistication and desires of the end user and of course the rifle in question.

If there is concern that you have a wide neck dimension in the chamber, then a skim of the case necks to knock off the high spots may be all that can be tolerated. A thou or two to clean things up and keep them consistent will pay dividends if consistency in neck tension is desired... or if using bushing sizing dies and you don't want to add more problems

Remember, that regardless of the chamber, the bullet is pretty much out of the case neck BEFORE the neck expands enough to hit the chamber walls (assume proper safe clearance around the case neck). So if the neck moves a little or a lot, it really isn't going to affect the consistency of the release.

Where excessive thinning of the case neck can be a problem is if the chamber is so big vs the case neck, that you get splits. I have yet to see this in a modern SAAMI chamber and typical reloading brass.

finally, many new brands can make their brass excessively thick. Yes, a manf can make brass thicker then desired (in rare case, thicker then SAAMI) causing a problem where the neck cannot open to release the bullet. this can show up when new manf brass for an old chamber is matched up.

So, as with all things reloading, it depends on the particular set of bits and parts that someone is using. check, check, and then check again. Too many shooters assume that fancy brass must mean super results.... and the most common problem we have diagnosed with custom built rifles using SAAMI reamers - overly thick brass causing excessive pressures in reloads and crappy accuracy. Thin the necks to create proper clearance, the rifles shoot bugholes as their components would suggest.

YMMV

Jerry
 
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I will agree with that, but not when it comes to "off the shelf" firearms.

Off the shelf firearms, which is what the OP was querying. The very odd one I've come across has needed small base dies but I've never come across one that needs necks turned for any reason.

I have take off factory barrels that measure out with great bore dimensions and set back the shoulders, then recut the chambers with match reamers, which do require neck turning, but that's just oranges to apples.
 
I neck turn on a lathe when I expand 308 brass to 358 Winchester. Most of my 308 brass has thicker shoulders than necks so I have to remove that extra material. I shaped my cutter bit to take some material off the shoulder to neck junction. If this is not done, brass flow will quickly cause thicker material to show up at the base of the neck. You can also expand the necks of the brass to a larger caliber temporarily and turn the necks at that point. Then when you neck it back down, some of the neck brass becomes shoulder brass with the exact same thickness. I have done this in cases where I needed to headspace on a false shoulder, anyways.
 
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