Gatehouse is right, nothing outside a zoo in Canada requires a 416 or 458. Its ok to use them for the fun of it, but the 375s offer a better balanced cartridge with less recoil. I had a 416 Rem Mag for a few years, it was fairly fun to shoot at the range once in a while, and it killed the moose I shot just fine, but I suspect if it was a 375 I'd still own it
375, 416, or 458 ?
- Thread starter gorky
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If you don't have a 375 get one.
As has been said the 375 is very well balanced.
The 375 is also the gateway to managing big bores like the 416's and fast 458's.
The 375 is a step you can not skip. The 416 Rigby and 458 Lott recoil levels are way above and beyond the abilities of a unhardened big bore shooter. Speaking quite plainly they hammer the pi$$ out of you.
Those that say the 416's and 458's have no place in this country should try them....up close and personal on our biggest coastal bears at spitting distances.
That the 416 and 458's deliver significantly more fight stopping smashing power than the smaller bores is a given. Anyone that fails to grasp this concept need only ask those of us that actually use them.
While without a doubt it is fair to say that something such as say a........300 magnum will kill a big bear, shooting the same bear facing you in a small creek 20 yards distant should be considered Darwinism.
Big animals in tight quarters go hand in hand with big bullets.....and by big I don't mean 8mm!
As has been said the 375 is very well balanced.
The 375 is also the gateway to managing big bores like the 416's and fast 458's.
The 375 is a step you can not skip. The 416 Rigby and 458 Lott recoil levels are way above and beyond the abilities of a unhardened big bore shooter. Speaking quite plainly they hammer the pi$$ out of you.
Those that say the 416's and 458's have no place in this country should try them....up close and personal on our biggest coastal bears at spitting distances.
That the 416 and 458's deliver significantly more fight stopping smashing power than the smaller bores is a given. Anyone that fails to grasp this concept need only ask those of us that actually use them.
While without a doubt it is fair to say that something such as say a........300 magnum will kill a big bear, shooting the same bear facing you in a small creek 20 yards distant should be considered Darwinism.
Big animals in tight quarters go hand in hand with big bullets.....and by big I don't mean 8mm!
.......
I've picked the 375 Ruger to be my "big hammer" since it is a good "close up and personal" cartridge, but also affords easy hits to 350 yards. The bigger cartridges do not
Not exactly.
The 416 Rigby will drive the 350gr X to near 2800fps and my 460 G&A will drive 450gr X bullets to 2700fps...At least as flat as your 375 Booger....And more fun to shoot...Well.... sort of!
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
The .375 and the .416 Rigby can be loaded to similar velocities with the same style of bullet so trajectory can be similar. With normal bullet weights the .416 is a better bet for dangerous game like buffalo or hippo. The .458 is a close quarters fighting gun at it's best when the game is dangerous and the range is a matter of feet, but in this scenario it takes a back seat to rounds like the .500, .577, .600 Nitro Express cartridges. From a client's point of view, none of this really matters. The PH carries the stopping rifle, and if you go on a one rifle hunt you want to be able to shoot out to 150 yards on plains game. In the end, the majority of clients take .375's to Africa, and the cartridge does exceptionally well for them.
The Ruger #1 is a beautiful rifle, but it has some quirks that prevent me from recommending it as a dangerous game rifle. The obvious is that it is a single shooter, but this can be compensated for with proper reloading techniques provided the scope is mounted so as not to cover the feed ramp. I put a custom quarter rib on mine to achieve this. The biggest problem is that the rifle must be carried with a round in the chamber in order to be carried loaded. It bothered me a great deal when after several hours of walking I would unsling to find the safety in the fire position. The spring on the safety seems to push it to the fire position. If the detent is not strong enough, mine wasn't, the normal jostling from walking is enough to disengage the safety. If you attempt to carry the rifle with the action out of battery, the falling block drops open, you loose the round, and you are left with an unloaded rifle.
Another issue can be the lack of caming action that you get from a bolt action. This means that you must be extremely careful when you select the ammo you will take into the field. Each round must be tested to ensure that the action will close without undue resistance. You may even find that you have to machine down the height of a shell holder so you achieve enough shoulder set back on a cartridge that has an abrupt shoulder like the .416 Rigby. Remember, you might be reloading in a hurry! If loads are compressed you had better crimp the bullets in place because when you chamber a round that has a bullet that pushed out, the action will not close. This can even be bad news in bolt actions and the bolt gun has much more mechanical leverage.
The #1 is a beautiful rifle, accurate, handles recoil well, has a good trigger, is nice to carry, but it isn't a dangerous game or protection rifle.
The Ruger #1 is a beautiful rifle, but it has some quirks that prevent me from recommending it as a dangerous game rifle. The obvious is that it is a single shooter, but this can be compensated for with proper reloading techniques provided the scope is mounted so as not to cover the feed ramp. I put a custom quarter rib on mine to achieve this. The biggest problem is that the rifle must be carried with a round in the chamber in order to be carried loaded. It bothered me a great deal when after several hours of walking I would unsling to find the safety in the fire position. The spring on the safety seems to push it to the fire position. If the detent is not strong enough, mine wasn't, the normal jostling from walking is enough to disengage the safety. If you attempt to carry the rifle with the action out of battery, the falling block drops open, you loose the round, and you are left with an unloaded rifle.
Another issue can be the lack of caming action that you get from a bolt action. This means that you must be extremely careful when you select the ammo you will take into the field. Each round must be tested to ensure that the action will close without undue resistance. You may even find that you have to machine down the height of a shell holder so you achieve enough shoulder set back on a cartridge that has an abrupt shoulder like the .416 Rigby. Remember, you might be reloading in a hurry! If loads are compressed you had better crimp the bullets in place because when you chamber a round that has a bullet that pushed out, the action will not close. This can even be bad news in bolt actions and the bolt gun has much more mechanical leverage.
The #1 is a beautiful rifle, accurate, handles recoil well, has a good trigger, is nice to carry, but it isn't a dangerous game or protection rifle.
I love the 416's they shoot flat hit hard & make things stop happening in a hurry I also like the 375s vaery handy & balanced cartridge the 458 lott is quite a handful to shoot I feel it is above my recoil tolerence at this time where the 416's aren't shooting a rifle & shooting one well are 2 very different things. If I was looking to get into the larger bore game I'd restart with a 375
The .375 is the practical choice of the bunch for all of the reasons already expressed. The No. 1 is a fine HUNTING rifle (not best choice as a "Stopping" rifle) but in my experience the No. 1 in .375 is a nasty rifle recoil-wise off the bench. Mind you the last one I had was before Decellerator type recoil pads were available. The No 1 is a little too light for the .375. My no 1's in 416 Rem and 458 Win were both more pleasant to shoot than the .375. I have no experience with the Lott.
The .375 in a Sako or Win M-70 classic were my favorites.
FWIW, 44Bore
The .375 in a Sako or Win M-70 classic were my favorites.
FWIW, 44Bore
I think a 458 with cast bullets and reduced loads for fun, full house loads for when you want them. Seems the single shot Ruger #1 magnum doesn't weigh a heck of a lot less (if any) than a repeater bolt gun from the same, CZ or Remington, so why limit ones self to a single shot in a potential dangerous game rifle?
Not exactly.
The 416 Rigby will drive the 350gr X to near 2800fps and my 460 G&A will drive 450gr X bullets to 2700fps...At least as flat as your 375 Booger....And more fun to shoot...Well.... sort of!
Yes, that is indeed true..I guess I was htinking more about the 458WM, which isn't known for it's long range performance.
That said, the 375 H&H or 375 Ruger is probably still a more practical cartridge for most people.
Bartell shot a moose wiht a 416 Remington.
It killed it.
But you bring up an interesting point. How many of the guys that have listed thier "big" guns here have taken north american game with it?
I remember reading something here on CGN about a guy shooting a moose with a 458 (not sure if it was a Lott or Win Mag). Anyways, apparently he shot it with the animal facing him, bullet exited through the rump, and much meat in between was destroyed. IIRC, he said "never again". I will try to find the link.
Republic of Alberta
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X2 on this
So ....... I've heard this arguement both ways more than a few times and I've never even owned or fired a #1, so I have to ask.
Does the Ruger #1 handle recoil well or not?
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- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
My #1 was a .416 Rigby. My standard load was 102 grs of H-4350 under a 350 gr X that chronographed at 2850 fps. I could hold this rifle prone for 3 rounds, after which I lost my concentration. Off hand was no problem to fire strings of 10. From kneeling and sitting I would shoot 5 rounds. For my size and build my impression was that the rifle handled the recoil well. There were other guys who shot it who did not agree, although the majority of them had never previously fired what I would consider to be a powerful rifle, as in nothing bigger than a .300 Winchester.
It's interesting to note that one fellow who was a fine shot his .375 H&H 602 with the European classic stock - a rifle that hurt me because the LOP was a bit long - didn't enjoy the .416 a bit. I also think that many people are used to shooting powerful rifles with monte-carlo stocks, and the recoil raises the muzzle more than with the classic stock which shoves the rifle straight back. In the end, I suppose it depends what you are used to and whether or not the stock fits you.
It's interesting to note that one fellow who was a fine shot his .375 H&H 602 with the European classic stock - a rifle that hurt me because the LOP was a bit long - didn't enjoy the .416 a bit. I also think that many people are used to shooting powerful rifles with monte-carlo stocks, and the recoil raises the muzzle more than with the classic stock which shoves the rifle straight back. In the end, I suppose it depends what you are used to and whether or not the stock fits you.
