jb bore paste
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bearhunter:
I wasn't complaining about the blue; simply refuting what an earlier poster had written about Wipe-out turning fouling a different colour, as opposed to removing it. I'm getting older & lazier, so spraying the foaming bore cleaner before I get down to "real" cleaning is what I prefer to do nowadays.
My normal cleaning routine, [at least for MY rifles], consists of the following:
These are the chemicals I use & my cleaning process. Think you can make out the names from the pictures. But, if not, here goes:
Brake Cleaner [any brand; whatever's on sale; I use the safe for inside [only 2 warnings on the can, not 3] stuff in the house]
Spray brake cleaner [using the little straw that comes with the can] down the bore & see if anything comes out
Kroil [auto parts stores or X-Reload] if you can't find any, bring a solvent proof bottle next time you're out; I bought a gallon.
Wet a patch with Kroil & push though bore; then do it twice more.
Leave for 30 minutes.
Run 2 dry patches down the bore.
AC Delco Kleenz Combustion Chamber Cleaner [most auto parts places]
First spray KLEENZ down the bore until it runs out the muzzle; it will probably, if you have fouling, be like blue milk.
Now spray a patch with KLEENZ, push down the bore. Repeat 2 more times.
Spray a nylon bore brush with KLEENZ & pass through the barrel [all the way out the muzzle & all the way back through the action. Repeat 10 times; after the 5th time, wipe the rod & re-spray the brush.
Remove the brush & spray the brush with alcohol, acetone, naptha gas or another GOOD solvent!
Now spray a patch with KLEENZ, push down the bore. Repeat 2 more times.
Run 2 dry patches down the bore.
Sea Foam Deep Creep [most auto parts places]
Spray a nylon bore brush with SF DC & pass through the barrel [all the way out the muzzle & all the way back through the action. Repeat 10 times; after the 5th time, wipe the rod & re-spray the brush.
Wet a patch with Deep Creep & push though bore; then do it twice more.
Leave for 30 minutes.
Run 2 dry patches down the bore.
Mercury Power Tune [outboard motor dealers, like Rond's Marine]
Spray a nylon bore brush with P-T & pass through the barrel [all the way out the muzzle & all the way back through the action. Repeat 10 times; after the 5th time, wipe the rod & re-spray the brush.
Wet a patch with P-T & push though bore; then do it twice more.
Leave for 30 minutes.
Run 2 dry patches down the bore.
Wipe-Out Carb-Out [carbon remover] [X-Reload]
Spray a nylon bore brush with W-O C-O & pass into the chamber & throat. Rotate the brush 20 or 30 times. Remove brush. Repeat 10 times; after the 5th time, wipe the rod & re-spray the brush.
Wet a patch with W-O C-O & push though bore; then do it twice more.
Run 2 dry patches down the bore.
KG12 BIG BORE Copper Remover [X-Reload]
Spray a nylon bore brush with KG-12 CR & pass through the barrel [all the way out the muzzle & all the way back through the action. Repeat 10 times; after the 5th time, wipe the rod & re-spray the brush.
Wet a patch with KG-12 CR & push though bore; then do it twice more.
Run 2 dry patches down the bore.
Wipe-Out Patch-Out [X-Reload]
Run 3 patches on which you have dribbled W-O P-O down the bore
Wipe-Out Accelerator [X-Reload]
Run 1 patch on which you have dribbled W-O P-O down the bore
Wipe-Out Foaming Bore Cleaner [X-Reload]
Spray [count 1/2 {one-half} M-I-S-S-I-S-S-I-P-P-I]; the foam will come out the muzzle [STOP; this S#!T is expensive, DON't WASTE IT!]
Set aside overnight [it continues working for up to 24 hours]
Once the W-O process [W-O P-O, W-O Accelerator & W-O foaming process results in NO colour on your patches, you're ready for the final steps.] Usually when I first get a used rifle, the W-O process takes a week or so, with me doing the 3 steps above twice a day [1st thing in the morning & just before bed]
Not shown; 'cause I'm an idiot!!
JB Bore Paste [X-Reload]
Wrap a 1 size smaller brush with a patch & rub in JB's BP. Pass through the barrel [all the way out the muzzle & all the way back through the action. Repeat 10 times.
Spray bore with brake cleaner
Spray a patch with brake cleaner & run down the bore.
Run 3 dry patches down the bore.
JB Bore Bright Bore Shine [X-Reload]
Wrap a 1 size smaller brush with a patch & rub in JB's BBBS. Pass through the barrel [all the way out the muzzle & all the way back through the action. Repeat 10 times.
Spray bore with brake cleaner.
Spray a patch with brake cleaner & run down the bore.
Run 3 dry patches down the bore.
Your bore should now be bright & shiny and will foul less in the future.
Remember though, to fire at least 2 fouling shots before starting to shoot for groups or for hunting.
Oil the bore with whatever oil floats your boat. NOT WD-40, as that is a water displacement [the 40th formula they came up with!] fluid, NOT a storage oil!!!
At each stage, pay attention to the colour of fouling on the patch. If your cleaning routine is working, the fouling colour will be less and less on each patch.
Remember that fouling is deposited in layers: jacket [blue or green], powder [black or gray], carbon [brown], ad infinitum. Hence, why you use Deep Creep, Kroil & Power Tune.
If you can get the chemicals to penetrate right through to bare steel, you will be able to flush out all of the fouling in a couple of goes.
Depending on what jacket material your bullets were made of, different chemicals will work better on different jacket material.
Remember that Hoppe's no longer works, because of WHMIS & the Safety N@Z!$. They removed the good chemicals.
Remember to use a bore guide!!!
And just to prove that an Old Dog CAN learn new tricks, because of a post here on CGN, I picked up a can of Free All.
Colour me IMPRESSED; although I'm really not sure that the Crud I'm removing from the barrel is not just bluing "rust" from Parker-Hale's cold-rust bluing process those ~70 plus years ago, I'll use it again!
Attachments
Lots of them do, yes. Is that what the poster was shooting?
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If you mean me, no, it is a factory Husqvarna 6.5x55.
If you meant the OP, then sorry for the waste of band-width.
Yes, I meant you. I don't know if your post was intentionally vague, but we have what we need now.
The borescope will "tell you" if your cleaning process is successful, and/or where you need to apply 'more work'. Until I got a Teslong in 2019, I thought I was doing fine - - then I saw the crap left there 'after' I did my "normal cleaning". C4 for Carbon Ring and any variety of Copper solvents for that stuff. There is a train of thought that promotes Copper "build-up" to 'smooth irregularities' in bores; I have some rifles that have issues but I Don't subscribe to that 'build up' theory. I've cleaned 'away' copper in divots but didn't see significant improvement in accuracy, tho I'm Not competitively accurate anyway. May not prove anything either way.
PS - I've used Rem 40X cleaner and find it's a good product, but generally not needed except to clean my 'terminally pitted' '51 TULA SKS. It does remove Copper very well, but so do Copper Solvents.
I have a lot of very caked on carbon in a barrel. I have used jb bore paste and bore bright and they remove some but it still exists. I am tired of running literally 100s of patches.
I think the step I am missing is the suggested use of kroil. I can't find kroil anywhere except xreload and don't really want to pay a bunch of shipping on it. Can anyone suggest an alternative penetrating oil that is as powerful as kroil?
I think the step I am missing is the suggested use of kroil. I can't find kroil anywhere except xreload and don't really want to pay a bunch of shipping on it. Can anyone suggest an alternative penetrating oil that is as powerful as kroil?
conor - Have you tried C4 ? I've used it for 'caked on' carbon on my SKS after 100+ rounds of milsurp. Just let it soak for an hour or so, then a nylon brush or even brass-core; that will not damage the bore unless you mess up the crown or chamber. And if you've got caked on carbon it's likely the bore will be messed anyway.
As for JB paste, I've used Rem-40X cleaner which is a liquid with abrasive in suspension, less 'pasty' than JB. I think the key with the abrasives is to run the patch several times, not removing after 1-2 passes. The abrasive is still there even if it's turned black with carbon ... that's the point. This has worked for me to remove Copper in my centerfire guns.
As for JB paste, I've used Rem-40X cleaner which is a liquid with abrasive in suspension, less 'pasty' than JB. I think the key with the abrasives is to run the patch several times, not removing after 1-2 passes. The abrasive is still there even if it's turned black with carbon ... that's the point. This has worked for me to remove Copper in my centerfire guns.
How tight are your patches in the bore? I have cloth hockey tape I wrap around an old brush barber pole like and make it tight to move back and forth in the bore with j.b.on. I have Kroil it won't touch hard carbon just like everything else. you will be disappointed that it doesn't make abrasive any more effective
Seafoam deep creep penetrating oil is a good alternative.
Patches are tight, I use as directed and have done hundreds of passes. Really doubt a liquid carbon solvent will do anything new but I'm game. I'll try the seafood first and let it soak for sometime in the hopes of loosening things up. The instructions for jb literally say to use kroil first, I'm not intending to use it for cleaning on its own
Funny thing is it was still shooting fine. But I only ever fire at gongs from field positions/ the bench and it has peep sights.
Really my fault for not cleaning it vigorously enough. It's really caked on there. Wipeout patch put worked for everything else, but not for non corrosive steel case carbon levels I guess.
I would often shoot 200-300 rounds between cleaning. Thousands of rounds through the gun (over 5 probably by 1-2k)
The barrels probably a bit rough underneath it all
I will rebarrel it eventually but for now, it's personal...
At least I can see the rifling now lol
Funny thing is it was still shooting fine. But I only ever fire at gongs from field positions/ the bench and it has peep sights.
Really my fault for not cleaning it vigorously enough. It's really caked on there. Wipeout patch put worked for everything else, but not for non corrosive steel case carbon levels I guess.
I would often shoot 200-300 rounds between cleaning. Thousands of rounds through the gun (over 5 probably by 1-2k)
The barrels probably a bit rough underneath it all
I will rebarrel it eventually but for now, it's personal...
At least I can see the rifling now lol
Inexpensive household ammonia will dissolve and bond with copper. It will also clean out any other fouling.
It will take the copper fouling out of cracks, crevices, frosting, and scratches in the bore so those of you with a bore scope can be horrified at the condition of your bore.
Miy Canadian Ranger Issue No 4 Longbranch Lee enfield came to me with a bore that was extremely dark. groups were 8"or larger.
I removed 70 years of fouling with an ammonia soak that lasted two hours. After a hot water rince, a WD40 rinse (WD stands for "water displacement") then a coat of G96 gun oil the bore was bright and shiny, and the frosting on an 8" section on the right hand side was clearly visible.
The first 20 or so shots went into a 2" group then the group opened up with bullets starting to keyhole at about 50 shots. Copper fouling was evident on the frosting, A second cleaning with ammonia brought groups down to 2" , but by the end of a 60 round course of fire bullets were keyholing again.
Hours of bore past scrubbing would likely have improved this situation, but I simply asked for a new rifle to be issued. problem solved.
Remember to rinse with hot water and seal the metal in the bore with a quality gun oil.
Inexpensive household ammonia will dissolve and bond with copper. It will also clean out any other fouling.
It will take the copper fouling out of cracks, crevices, frosting, and scratches in the bore so those of you with a bore scope can be horrified at the condition of your bore.
Ammonia can't be left in your bore for more than a half hour, without causing pitting. Ammonia will strip the finish of any wooden or composite stock and the fumes are not conducive to good health.
It will also burn your hands or the feet of pets if a drop manages to get on them.
The method you used for cleaning your No4 is over a century old and I will admit, it works very well, IF the person using it knows how to utilize it properly.
I've used it myself on several firearms and will likely be using it on a recently acquired rifle, after Christmas.
The thing to bring to light is there is a very good reason that method of cleaning firearms is only for EXTREME cases. Even back in the day, it was only used in extreme cases.
The washing with hot water was not only to dilute and wash out the ammonia, it was also to dissolve and wash out the corrosive byproducts of the propellants used up to the mid fifties.
WIPE OUT is a much BETTER ALTERNATIVE with few if any hazards to worry about and does the job every bit as well with modern cartridge issues.
The average shooter can easily master Wipe Out. Most shooters have no idea how to clean corrosive residues packed in with jacket fouling.
I've spoken to people, who have never cleaned the bores of their firearms and fully believe the that horrendous pressures endured after shooting ten to twent y boxes of ammo are enough to "wear out a bore"
It will take the copper fouling out of cracks, crevices, frosting, and scratches in the bore so those of you with a bore scope can be horrified at the condition of your bore.
Ammonia can't be left in your bore for more than a half hour, without causing pitting. Ammonia will strip the finish of any wooden or composite stock and the fumes are not conducive to good health.
It will also burn your hands or the feet of pets if a drop manages to get on them.
The method you used for cleaning your No4 is over a century old and I will admit, it works very well, IF the person using it knows how to utilize it properly.
I've used it myself on several firearms and will likely be using it on a recently acquired rifle, after Christmas.
The thing to bring to light is there is a very good reason that method of cleaning firearms is only for EXTREME cases. Even back in the day, it was only used in extreme cases.
The washing with hot water was not only to dilute and wash out the ammonia, it was also to dissolve and wash out the corrosive byproducts of the propellants used up to the mid fifties.
WIPE OUT is a much BETTER ALTERNATIVE with few if any hazards to worry about and does the job every bit as well with modern cartridge issues.
The average shooter can easily master Wipe Out. Most shooters have no idea how to clean corrosive residues packed in with jacket fouling.
I've spoken to people, who have never cleaned the bores of their firearms and fully believe the that horrendous pressures endured after shooting ten to twent y boxes of ammo are enough to "wear out a bore"
Ammonia does not cause pitting in a steel bore, Ammonia will clean the fouling out of pitting and cracks allowing the pitting and cracks to become obvious. NH3 is not corrosive to iron or steel.
Ammonia reacts with copper very quickly and twenty minutes is usually enough.
Yes, ammonia is dangerous on bare skin.
Yes, Ammonia stinks.
The only part of the bore that is subject to wear from gas is the portion of bore called the throat. Gas pressure and temperature at the mouth of the cartridge case can erode the first couple of cm of the bore. That blast of hot gases is like several milliseconds of an acetylene torch in that part of the barrel.
I have an old barrel, from a pre 64 Mod 70 that would prove you wrong.
Ammonia is corrosive.
Global web icon
ASM Digital Library
https://dl.asminternational.org/.../26/chapter/351287/Corrosion-by-Ammo…
Corrosion by Ammonia | Corrosion: Environments and …
WebThis article discusses the corrosion resistance of materials used for the manufacture, handling, and storage of ammonia. These materials include aluminum alloys, iron and …
Ammonia is corrosive.
Global web icon
ASM Digital Library
https://dl.asminternational.org/.../26/chapter/351287/Corrosion-by-Ammo…
Corrosion by Ammonia | Corrosion: Environments and …
WebThis article discusses the corrosion resistance of materials used for the manufacture, handling, and storage of ammonia. These materials include aluminum alloys, iron and …
In my younger Years as a marine engineer we had old ships with ammonia as refrigerant, all the compressors , valves and piping were steel, and this ammonia was not the diluted stuff you buy in the grocery store.
Never seen any pitting in compressors when we did an overhaul.
Before I used household ammonia for cleaning barrels I put some in a plastic bowl and put a few rifle bullets in them together with an Allen key and left them overnight.
Next morning the bullets were very nicely etched, but nothing had happened to the Allen key, so I have used the ammonia now to clean out the copper from this old
1903 Springfield barrel, plugged the chamber and filled the barrel, left it in there for 2 hours, seems pretty clean now, will see if accuracy has improved when it goes to the range again.
BTW, after draining the ammonia from the barrel I used my little Hotshot steam cleaner to get rid of the ammonia residue, this also heats the barrel up nicely so it dries very quick, after that a regular brushing with Hoppes 9 and a few patches.
Never seen any pitting in compressors when we did an overhaul.
Before I used household ammonia for cleaning barrels I put some in a plastic bowl and put a few rifle bullets in them together with an Allen key and left them overnight.
Next morning the bullets were very nicely etched, but nothing had happened to the Allen key, so I have used the ammonia now to clean out the copper from this old
1903 Springfield barrel, plugged the chamber and filled the barrel, left it in there for 2 hours, seems pretty clean now, will see if accuracy has improved when it goes to the range again.
BTW, after draining the ammonia from the barrel I used my little Hotshot steam cleaner to get rid of the ammonia residue, this also heats the barrel up nicely so it dries very quick, after that a regular brushing with Hoppes 9 and a few patches.
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Please tell us the chemical reaction with iron/ferrous metal where NH3 corrodes?
I am curious.
Anhydrous Ammonia is shipped in steel tanks for use in fertilizer. Local farmers use tens of thousands of gallons without corrosion problems.
Household ammonia is much less volatile than anhydrous ammonia and it will not corrode ferrous metal.
I have soaked iron and steel in Ammonia for months and found no evidence of corrosion or pitting.
I have soaked dark bores of chinese M-98 BRNO mausers for weeks with ammonia as well and they have shown no evidence of corrosion by ammonia.
Household ammonia will clean all of the oil off of ferrous metal and allow oxygen to corrode if the metal is not sealed with a quality oil .
I believe your barrel had faults and flaws that were masked by fouling and the ammonia solution exposed those faults and flaws.
How is it people still believe ammonia cleaners can damage barrel steel?
Take a piece of barrel steel and soak it in ammonia. I did that test 50 years ago. I took a couple of slices off a blued barrel and left them in Sweets 7.62 for a week - no affect at all. Left them for a month... no effect on the bluing nor the bare metal.
As the above post (119) stated, I believe those who think ammonia caused damage saw faults and flaws that were masked by fouling and the ammonia solution exposed those faults and flaws.
What the ammonia can do is clean the steel so well that if left clean and dry the steel will be susceptible to rusting... that's it. So after cleaning wipe your dry bore lightly with a gun oil. Wipe it dry before firing.
Take a piece of barrel steel and soak it in ammonia. I did that test 50 years ago. I took a couple of slices off a blued barrel and left them in Sweets 7.62 for a week - no affect at all. Left them for a month... no effect on the bluing nor the bare metal.
As the above post (119) stated, I believe those who think ammonia caused damage saw faults and flaws that were masked by fouling and the ammonia solution exposed those faults and flaws.
What the ammonia can do is clean the steel so well that if left clean and dry the steel will be susceptible to rusting... that's it. So after cleaning wipe your dry bore lightly with a gun oil. Wipe it dry before firing.
