Modern MLs
- Thread starter reomack
- Start date
That’s a nonsense argument.
Nobody’s taking away a season because guns are more accurate than they were. If that were the case rifle season would be done as just about any new rifle these days will hold half MOA with the right load.
Same with shotguns, a savage 220 shotgun with a federal or accutip sabot slug is a fine 200 yard firearm for deer if you can do your part. Guess they will take away that season as well.
You want to use a flinter - do it!
Fabulous if you can hit the broad side of a barn with one and by the way, a bad shot with any gun can see the animal disappear forever and die some horrible death. Your comments make me think you don’t take too many animals.
Don’t crap on other folks who use an inline. It’s still a front stuffer. Your BS argument that it isn’t in the spirit does not hold any water. Inlines have been around a very long time at this point, they aren’t going anywhere.
You seem to fancy yourself a purist, well good for you. I’ll keep hunting with what I enjoy hunting with.
Merry Christmas!
The reason for muzzle loading seasons is because traditional rifles with patched round ball are probably limited to 100 yds. Ethically there should not be 200 yard shots with a patched round ball. The original inlines also shot round ball and cannot be compared to a modern inline with a saboted slug. Locally, shotguns with buckshot are permitted in areas where there are houses not too far away. Shotguns with slugs are not permitted in those areas for the same reason that cartridge rifles are not permitted in those locations
cheers mooncoon
First, love that this topic has taken off.
Second, while I agree in lines have gone beyond what traditional front stuffers are capable of, I am not opposed to opening this area to optical sights. Particularly with age for some but especially to ensure humane shots I simply cannot see an argument against it.
Second, while I agree in lines have gone beyond what traditional front stuffers are capable of, I am not opposed to opening this area to optical sights. Particularly with age for some but especially to ensure humane shots I simply cannot see an argument against it.
Licensed to kill
CGN Regular
- Location
- Peace Country Alberta
Pretty simple, don't shoot beyond your abilities. If you can't make clean, ethical single shot kills beyond 50 yards with open iron, don't take shots beyond 50 yards. Its not about how well one can see, it is about hunting ethics. If someone is going wound animals by shooting beyond their ability to shoot accurately with iron sights, odds are they will also shoot beyond their ability to shoot accurately with a scope, in fact maybe moreso as the gun itself becomes less accurate the further out you go. The issue of ethical humane shots is not limited to ML's. There are LOTS of "hunters" that shoot way beyond their ability with high power rifles and LOTS that put little to no effort into making sure that their gun is capable of making clean one shot kills. There ARE lots of ethical, skilled hunters out there that rarely need more than a single shot but it is not everyone. I have seen WAY too much of the "spray and pray" type of hunters which is why I quit hunting years ago. If ML seasons were run differently, IE, iron sights, black powder and PRB, getting within 50 yards would not be difficult. Bow hunters do it ALL THE TIME. However, when you get wanna/be snipers with their scoped inlines shooting sabots and some even smokeless blasting away at 200 or even 300 yards from the window of their truck, game gets spooked and getting within ethical ranges with proper (for the season) ML's and shotguns becomes more difficult for the actual "hunters". Personally, I don't care one way or the other. The WHOLE POINT of these sorts of "special seasons" is, in the case of bow season to allow bow hunters to hunt game that is NOT spooked by long range rifle fire and for ML's/shotguns often to limit the range of the weapon due to acreage/residence density OR, as with the bow season to improve the hunting experience for those that want to use short range guns without having the game spooked by long range snipers. These high power rifle equivalent "muzzleloaders" violate these intentions and, whether some want to believe it or not, they WILL get the special seasons either shut down, or restricted to ensure that EVERYONE adheres to the spirit and intended restrictions of the season. Unfortunately, governments don't like to apply effort to anything g so, if/wen the problem of long range sniping in intended shortchanged range season becomes too much, they will are likely cancel the season rather than adjust the rules then everyone that was honouring the spirit and intention of the season will, lose. BTW way, this is NOT an "inline" issue. Nothing wrong with an inline shooting PRB, black powder and iron sights. its the guns that violate the intentions of the season with their centerfire ballistics. Oh, and as far as the lame argument that "but...but...but I only have one shot", save it, My Ruger No1 only has one shot as does my 1885 highwall and, more importantly, EVERONE should strive to make clean kills with their first shot, even in regular rifle season. IMO, if someone feels the need for the ability for a quick follow-up shot, they are not ready for hunting season yet.
duncansuds
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Weyburn, SK
No… that No.1 can be reloaded in 1 second and can have wildly effective capabilities beyond 300 y. Not the same.
Licensed to kill
CGN Regular
- Location
- Peace Country Alberta
I did not state what caliber my No1 was (could be a 38-55 for all you know) and second, No, it can NOT be reloaded "in 1 second". Yes it can be reloaded quicker than a ML but it is still ONE SHOT which is all you should need regardless of the rifle or the season if you are any kind of "hunter" at all and on those rare occasions that you DO need a followup shot, you have lots of time to reload regardless of the rifle/action type.
duncansuds
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Weyburn, SK
Well.. maybe a second and a half hahah. I do hunt with single shots often. They are not even comparable to reloading a muzzle loader, (which also come out every second season or so for me) I keep 3 cartridges on a 5 cartridge stock sleeve, which make for a very fast follow up shot (in practice and on the gopher field anyways)
Never stated what caliber you have, doesn’t matter… I can agree on one shot typically being what’s actually required, doesn’t move the needle any closer to being an acceptable choice for a muzzle loader (or equivalent) season
Never stated what caliber you have, doesn’t matter… I can agree on one shot typically being what’s actually required, doesn’t move the needle any closer to being an acceptable choice for a muzzle loader (or equivalent) season
Licensed to kill
CGN Regular
- Location
- Peace Country Alberta
Not even in a second and a half. Regardless, whether you can reload in a nano second (as with a autoloader) or takes 20 seconds (as with a ML with PRB) it is irrelevant since, unless you are hunting dangerous game, a quick second shot has little value.
So are you now claiming that a Ruler No1 " have wildly effective capabilities beyond 300 y." regardless of calibre????, you might want to rethink that.
Apparently you either have missed the point of this discussion or you read it and failed to understand it.
My area is shotgun whether it be slug or buckshot and ML.
ML’s no matter what the ilk, are not CF’s.
Government folks seem to regulate the crap out of everything so I find it hard to believe that the intention was ball and patch only..
On that same note, I think you are just as safe with an inline shooting black or smokeless and a conical or standard rifle bullet than a round ball..
Again to each their own.
No he didn’t.
Your ruger no 1 isn’t an ML. Come on that’s ridiculous. His point is simple, it’s a bloody cf rifle and many calibers can reach out well beyond 300 yards in capable hands.
20 seconds to reload your ML eh?
Love it, maybe you can teach me how?
I take a minute, at least.
Maybe at the range where I literally shoot hundreds of rounds a year of ML, I might get it down a tad. Bullets are indexed to rifling in my rigs etc.
I think at this point you are arguing just to argue and I’m mad at myself for participating!
When I see flinters firing away, it’s no faster.
Regarding a quick second shot, clearly you have never run dogs or taken a shot at a running deer where you lead improperly.
Not everyone misses on second follow up.
Licensed to kill
CGN Regular
- Location
- Peace Country Alberta
WOOSH, that is the sound of the paint going right over your head.
20 might be a bit aggressive, while I have never put a stop watch to it, 30-40 is more likely. Perhaps next summer I will put a stop watch to it just to see. For the record, while my memory is not what it used to be, it seems to me that in order to pass "boot camp" in the 18th century British military, a cadet had to be able to load, aim and shoot 3 or 4 (don't recall which) shots per minute. Granted loading a military musket is easier and faster than a PRB rifle but not 3-4 TIMES faster.
Not likely, you already know everything.
The could be, I've never loaded an inline so am not aware of the differences that could affect loading times, however, off the top of my head the only real difference would be in perhaps starting the bullet and setting the primer. I don't know.
"hundreds of roads" that's better than most that shoot 2 or 3 before the season and call that good ESPECIALLY if those "hundreds of rounds" are standing and not from a bench.
That would eat u a second or 2 I suspect, not unlike indexing a round ball with the sprue up I suppose.
Interesting, I was thinking the same about you.
You got me there, I HAVE never run dogs because I follow the law and I have NEVER taken a shot at a running big game animal in my life because I consider myself an ethical hunter that puts accurate, quick, humane, one shot kills above just filling my tag. HOWEVER, I HAVE shot a few bears that were walking but they were all under 50 yards and none of them required a followup shot. In fact, I can only recall 2 instances where I needed more than one shot (both times required 3), Once on a white-tail with my No1 and the other a bear with my flintlock but neither required a QUICK followup shot and both still ended up in my freezer. I would rather (and have many times) go home empty handed than take a shot that I am to 100% sure of a clean kill. Probably 2/3's of my shots on game are in the 50 yard range and the other 1/3 perhaps 100 years or so. I DID shoot an elk at 300 yards once but that was what I considered "special" circumstances. Just the limits that I put on myself for 2 reasons. First, quick, clean kills are important to me and second, I have no confidence in my ability to track a wounded animal (I almost lost the white-tail that did not follow protocol and stay put after the first shot) Again, to each his own
Licensed to kill
CGN Regular
- Location
- Peace Country Alberta
Historically, they have been made with up to 14 barrels but they wee not intended for or used for hunting/shooting anything but people. It is also not too difficult to build a full auto flintlock but would be impractical (and lily illegal) to hunt with. I have an 8GA SXS that I have a road ball mould for that I was gonna g to use for hunting. The plan was to load one barrel with PRB for Elk and the other with shot in case I came across a grouse. Never did use it for that. I DID use it for geese a coupe times before the lead ban though.
Here in UK, where I've lived on and off since December '83, and been a member of three gun clubs, I've only ever seen a single one in-line rifle. There are 450+ people on our club, of which around a fifth shoot BP of some kind, but not any kind of inline.
Given that there is not a single ML firearm that complies with the requirements of velocity and muzzle energy to take larger game, I can see the lack of interest. Only smoothbore muzzleloaders can be used on flying game or small critters.
Given that there is not a single ML firearm that complies with the requirements of velocity and muzzle energy to take larger game, I can see the lack of interest. Only smoothbore muzzleloaders can be used on flying game or small critters.
Wow. Lots of arguing comparing a single shot rifle to a muzzle loader. They’re not remotely close.
Anyway, I do a lot of hunting with an inline and just bought a Knight Ultra-lite. My Knight KRB7 that I have hiked hundreds and hundreds of miles with and taken may big game animals with will be my backup ml now. Love it but it’s a heavy pig.
Here in SK having a ml gives you a lot of extra hunting opportunities. Definitely worth owning.
Anyway, I do a lot of hunting with an inline and just bought a Knight Ultra-lite. My Knight KRB7 that I have hiked hundreds and hundreds of miles with and taken may big game animals with will be my backup ml now. Love it but it’s a heavy pig.
Here in SK having a ml gives you a lot of extra hunting opportunities. Definitely worth owning.
duncansuds
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Weyburn, SK
I was kinda surprised to see that too…that single comment now seems like a bait that a few of us fell for. His family must not have shown up for Christmas this year to argue with and left him full to the brim of piss and vinegar hahahaha.
The season extension in Sask is the prime reason I like to tote the muzzy. Especially if there was a big boy who keeps his distance…I am a spot-and-stalk bow guy until rifle season starts (we have no trees here to sit in and it kinda one-ups Mr. Arguepants on traditional approach to hunting too
). This approach gives me plenty of exercise and a good chance to take the big double (antlers and body weight) combo. As the season progresses, inches give way to pounds and leaves me looking for weight only as the season draws to a close.
The season extension in Sask is the prime reason I like to tote the muzzy. Especially if there was a big boy who keeps his distance…I am a spot-and-stalk bow guy until rifle season starts (we have no trees here to sit in and it kinda one-ups Mr. Arguepants on traditional approach to hunting too
). This approach gives me plenty of exercise and a good chance to take the big double (antlers and body weight) combo. As the season progresses, inches give way to pounds and leaves me looking for weight only as the season draws to a close.
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Licensed to kill
CGN Regular
- Location
- Peace Country Alberta
Maybe I am wrong and just don't understand the point behind a shotgun/ML season (since we don't have one) and, I admit my position is based on my own assumptions in that regard . To help me understand where I am wrong, can someone that HAS a shotgun/ML season explain the reason for a season limited to those two specific types of forearms?.
