Antique revolver suggestion for frequent use

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Incendiary

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Hi all.

I'm into antiques and am looking for a full size centerfire cartridge type revolver that will take the "abuse" of firing regularly without too much issue. Please kindly post a suggestion if you have (or directly know someone who has) personal experience firing it, not just owning it. If you have notes about availability for reloading components for a specific revolver that is helpful info to share as well! Eg. does your example require that you have to cut your own brass or pour your own lead?


Update from Feb 29 2024 - this has got way more replies than anticipated! Thank you so much for everyone's valuable input. I am now compiling a list of everyone's recommendations below. Maybe someone new to the scene will find it useful. Those who are reading this for the first time and have experience to input, please post your replies and I will continue to add them up!


Note to those that are looking at getting an antique since the handgun transfer ban: The guns on this list are all, first and foremost, antique collectors items and history pieces. They can fail or break at any time, even if they have been looked over. This post also is not intended to encourage the use of modern factory ammunition in black powder antiques.


Listed below are the models of centerfire revolver that have been suggested. They are sorted in order of appearance in this thread. Noted beside the revolver model is the number of people that have recommended it in this thread.


S&W No. 3 (all varieties) - II

Colt SAA (41 LC) - II

Webley* - VI

French MAS 1873 - I

French 1892 (Lebel) - II

Swiss 1882 - II

German 1883 Reichsrevolver** - I



* Webley note: 45ACP conversions are common and often lead to people firing full power smokeless loads. This WILL result in damage/stretched frame over time.

** German 1883 Reichsrevolver note: one owner reports firing ~250 modern "cowboy action" smokeless loads in his example with zero issues and has taken measurements to verify no frame stretching
 
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Either of those or a Webley are probably your best bet.

I’ll add as I usually do, I wouldn’t rule out cap and ball revolvers, I’ve had several Colt 1860 and 1862 police models and I found making paper cartridges was fun, easy and economical. I shot my 1860s 10 times as much as my cartridge revolvers.

Edit: I’ll also also add food for thought, good quality affordable 41 Long colt brass is becoming a bear to attain. It’s out there but it’s hit or miss, usually really old. The new stuff is usually Bertram, the quality sucks, the dimensions are off and it uses large pistol primers which is a trivial complaint but when you mix with starline it’s just more gear you need.
 
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MosinMan13 said:
Either of those or a Webley are probably your best bet.

I’ll add as I usually do, I wouldn’t rule out cap and ball revolvers, I’ve had several Colt 1860 and 1862 police models and I found making paper cartridges was fun, easy and economical. I shot my 1860s 10 times as much as my cartridge revolvers.

Edit: I’ll also also add food for thought, good quality affordable 41 Long colt brass is becoming a bear to attain. It’s out there but it’s hit or miss, usually really old. The new stuff is usually Bertram, the quality sucks, the dimensions are off and it uses large pistol primers which is a trivial complaint but when you mix with starline it’s just more gear you need.
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Thanks so much for weighing in! Did you have good reliability with your cap and ball Colts? I guess one of the reasons I'm worried about cap and ball is chainfire and the mess of having to pack lube around with you if you want to shoot more than 6 times. Any feedback on that?
 
Incendiary said:
Thanks so much for weighing in! Did you have good reliability with your cap and ball Colts? I guess one of the reasons I'm worried about cap and ball is chainfire and the mess of having to pack lube around with you if you want to shoot more than 6 times. Any feedback on that?
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Yeah if it started life as an antique the webley mentioned above are commonly shaved to fire 45 acp I believe and it’s legal. Or is it a cylinder replacement? Either way someone here knows.

As for my colts, I made paper cartridges in my spare time with a kit I got online, I dipped my cartridges in a home made wax solution so technically the wheel was already greased so to speak, and I brought a small tin of wax with me and if I wasn’t happy with that seal I would smudge a little more in but to be honest if you size the round ball properly you won’t have chain fires even without greasing the wheel. I never had a malfunction, not a single issue, but that’s equally a testament to single actions in general.
 
MosinMan13 said:
Yeah if it started life as an antique the webley mentioned above are commonly shaved to fire 45 acp I believe and it’s legal. Or is it a cylinder replacement? Either way someone here knows.

As for my colts, I made paper cartridges in my spare time with a kit I got online, I dipped my cartridges in a home made wax solution so technically the wheel was already greased so to speak, and I brought a small tin of wax with me and if I wasn’t happy with that seal I would smudge a little more in but to be honest if you size the round ball properly you won’t have chain fires even without greasing the wheel. I never had a malfunction, not a single issue, but that’s equally a testament to single actions in general.
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Cool, yeah 45ACP isn't on the list of cartridges you can't have.

I'm interested in learning more about the cap and ball Colts you mentioned. I'll do some research.

I welcome any other votes for existing suggestions or new suggestions too!
 
A lot to unpack here. For bush carry and plinking, I have a extremely nice Smith & Wesson 1st. model double action chambered in .44 Russian. Cosmetically, it's nice but not jaw-dropping, however, it went to S&W for a refurb in 1921 and the mechanics are excellent. In antique revolvers, the old pros are adamant that you should only shoot soft cast lead. I have 200gr. plinking bullets and 240gr. hollow point for serious deterrence. Personally, I like the double action option. IMHO, .44 Russian is about the most powerful centre fire cartridges that's relatively easy to load for and shoot. I load smokeless HP38 which will have some purists screaming about black powder only, but from my research it's perfectly fine if you're smart and meticulous in your reloading. When I ventured into the realm of antiques I was looking at the Webley revolvers. Specs showed the .455 Webley was rather anemic compared to the .44 Russian and the S&W revolvers were somewhat less expensive. I've also heard about Webleys shaved to .45 ACP blowing up due to overpressure. I had about 5 S&W's pass through my hands while I refined my "want" specs before I found my keeper.
 
LawrenceN said:
A lot to unpack here. For bush carry and plinking, I have a extremely nice Smith & Wesson 1st. model double action chambered in .44 Russian. Cosmetically, it's nice but not jaw-dropping, however, it went to S&W for a refurb in 1921 and the mechanics are excellent. In antique revolvers, the old pros are adamant that you should only shoot soft cast lead. I have 200gr. plinking bullets and 240gr. hollow point for serious deterrence. Personally, I like the double action option. IMHO, .44 Russian is about the most powerful centre fire cartridges that's relatively easy to load for and shoot. I load smokeless HP38 which will have some purists screaming about black powder only, but from my research it's perfectly fine if you're smart and meticulous in your reloading. When I ventured into the realm of antiques I was looking at the Webley revolvers. Specs showed the .455 Webley was rather anemic compared to the .44 Russian and the S&W revolvers were somewhat less expensive. I've also heard about Webleys shaved to .45 ACP blowing up due to overpressure. I had about 5 S&W's pass through my hands while I refined my "want" specs before I found my keeper.
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Thanks much for sharing your experience.

How many grains of HP38 do you use? I am a “practicalist” - I don’t care what is in the case as long as pressure is managed properly.
 
Incendiary said:
Thanks much for sharing your experience.

How many grains of HP38 do you use? I am a “practicalist” - I don’t care what is in the case as long as pressure is managed properly.
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My reloading specs (which came with my Lyman die set) call for 4.2-5 gr. for the 200gr. and 4.0-4.8gr. for the 240gr. hollow points. I load the 200gr. at mid point (4.6) for plinking. Since I mean the HP for serious use, I shoot them rarely but they're loaded to full spec of 4.8gr. I've found no harm to pistol in terms of loosening or shake sticking to those loads. I'd love to do a chrony on them to see how they perform and I intend to pick up a block of modeling clay to do penetration and cavitation tests. I'll probably do that in the spring when I'm up north at my buddy's place.
 
Most Webleys that I’ve seen and owned had shaved cylinders and a 45acp would drop in nicely with a moon clip holding the cartridge in place and unfortunately too many previous owners used full factory ammo and stretched the frame and a sloppy lockup was a result. No problem buying one of these when they were $1500 to $1700 but buying one now for 3G plus that has been abused isn’t something I’m interested in.

I have one in the original 455 caliber with an unshaven cylinder and reload with either smokeless or black powder at a level that’s proper for these old revolvers and it’ll last forever if properly cleaned after shooting. Same with my 1858 Remington which is another strong antique revolver.
 
LawrenceN said:
My reloading specs (which came with my Lyman die set) call for 4.2-5 gr. for the 200gr. and 4.0-4.8gr. for the 240gr. hollow points. I load the 200gr. at mid point (4.6) for plinking. Since I mean the HP for serious use, I shoot them rarely but they're loaded to full spec of 4.8gr. I've found no harm to pistol in terms of loosening or shake sticking to those loads. I'd love to do a chrony on them to see how they perform and I intend to pick up a block of modeling clay to do penetration and cavitation tests. I'll probably do that in the spring when I'm up north at my buddy's place.
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Thanks for sharing your load data. There’s a guy in the stickies that had a pressure reading setup, pretty neat. Between that and a chrony those guys figured out how to load to get less pressure than BP with more velocity. Would be cool to have that data for your animal defense load.
 
bush1 said:
Most Webleys that I’ve seen and owned had shaved cylinders and a 45acp would drop in nicely with a moon clip holding the cartridge in place and unfortunately too many previous owners used full factory ammo and stretched the frame and a sloppy lockup was a result. No problem buying one of these when they were $1500 to $1700 but buying one now for 3G plus that has been abused isn’t something I’m interested in.

I have one in the original 455 caliber with an unshaven cylinder and reload with either smokeless or black powder at a level that’s proper for these old revolvers and it’ll last forever if properly cleaned after shooting. Same with my 1858 Remington which is another strong antique revolver.
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That is a good point re: the stretching from people using full power loads.Point taken to only purchase one that hasn’t been reamed.

Based on the original cartridge designs it would stand to reason that the S&W guns chambered for 44 Russian are more stout than those Weblys chambered for 455. Would you agree?
 
You can’t shoot actual .45 ACP in Webleys… well you can, but you’ll wreck your gun one shot at a time. They’re only appropriate for .455 loads housed in .45ACP cases for convenience. I’d never buy a .45 ACP reamed Webley personally, and have always avoided them. .45ACP is over the proof load those guns were designed for, and quickly turns them into “Wobbly Webleys” as their nifty top break actions just aren’t that strong.

I’ve owned many, many antiques from cap & ball Colts to a C96 Conehammer. The best was the C96, but you’re looking at 15k+ these days. Colt SAAs in .41 come in second, for the durability to actually use it and not worry. Remember the steel used in these, if it was even steel (Colt frames are essentially wrought iron) except for the Mauser C96 I mentioned is usually at best mild steel by today’s standards. It wears fast, stretches easily, and there is really no antique that should be expected to be a weekly shooter and hold up except perhaps an SAA or C96 in my opinion.

This isn’t to say you can’t actually use an antique, just don’t expect them to be ‘ole reliable and your favourite range gun to shoot a few thousand rounds a year through. Even the barrels are bores are soft, and wear fast, it’s not modern steel with a couple fairly rare exceptions. They’re a lovely novelty, and problems start when you ask them to be a modern gun. Treat them and use them for what they are, fun low powered hobby guns, and they’re a wonderful diversion.
 
Ardent said:
This isn’t to say you can’t actually use an antique, just don’t expect them to be ‘ole reliable and your favourite range gun to shoot a few thousand rounds a year through.
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Absolutely. Not a first time owner/shooter. But I do want something I can put a few hundred appropriately loaded rounds of through in its lifetime, without worrying too much about it falling apart.
 
Incendiary said:
That is a good point re: the stretching from people using full power loads.Point taken to only purchase one that hasn’t been reamed.

Based on the original cartridge designs it would stand to reason that the S&W guns chambered for 44 Russian are more stout than those Weblys chambered for 455. Would you agree?
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It’s not reamed as the cylinder diameter is ok, it’s shaved at the rear end to allow clearance for the 45acp rim and accompanied moon clip.

The later Mk3 Webley’s were stronger and some with a * or ** were factory upgraded but again, I had a Mk2 upgraded and had a loose lockup that was probably caused by a previous owner using stout ammo.

The French MAS 1873 revolver in 11mm that I have is quite stout and shoots very well with black powder and the French lebel revolver in 8mm is said to be quite stout as well but I don’t own one so couldn’t comment. Some of these have been abused over the years so do your proper diligence and as usual, buyer beware…
 
bush1 said:
The French MAS 1873 revolver in 11mm that I have is quite stout and shoots very well with black powder and the French lebel revolver in 8mm is said to be quite stout as well but I don’t own one so couldn’t comment. Some of these have been abused over the years so do your proper diligence and as usual, buyer beware…
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Thanks for the vote on the MAS 1873. I’m not familiar with the old Euro chambering - are you able to purchase brass and bullets for it readily? And is the primer conventional as well?
 
Incendiary said:
Thanks for the vote on the MAS 1873. I’m not familiar with the old Euro chambering - are you able to purchase brass and bullets for it readily? And is the primer conventional as well?
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As with lots of other antique calibers, there’s not much available off the self but a bit of research will find plenty of options that others have used. I use 44-40 Win cases with the rims trimmed to .040 thick and length trimmed to .71 I have a stock of .452 lead bullets with a .430 heal I got from Jethunter when he was making bullets but he sold out his business so will have to look elsewhere someday. Primers are large pistol.

There’s also a guy in France that sell components for this revolver as well.
 
LawrenceN said:
My reloading specs (which came with my Lyman die set) call for 4.2-5 gr. for the 200gr. and 4.0-4.8gr. for the 240gr. hollow points. I load the 200gr. at mid point (4.6) for plinking. Since I mean the HP for serious use, I shoot them rarely but they're loaded to full spec of 4.8gr. I've found no harm to pistol in terms of loosening or shake sticking to those loads. I'd love to do a chrony on them to see how they perform and I intend to pick up a block of modeling clay to do penetration and cavitation tests. I'll probably do that in the spring when I'm up north at my buddy's place.
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Nice, that is great information to have. How many rounds do you figure you have run through your S&W DA?
 
Incendiary said:
Nice, that is great information to have. How many rounds do you figure you have run through your S&W DA?
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No-one really shoots them much for the most part. BBQ guns...well in SK & AB anyhow. Go to the family reunion at an Uncles and when the .22's come out...well, well, look what I brung to the event! Who has never shot a pistol before? Let's get it going then shall we?
I prolly shot my 89 400-500 times...just guessing. Sold it sadly.
I'm rural, can you tell?
 
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