Semi-Sten: CFC AND RCMP approved and Home at Last
- Thread starter stencollector
- Start date
well best of luck
Im relaying my 2 years of experince trying to get a semi auto approved what they SAY and write means nothing they will just say they have changed thier decision
Orig sten mk 3 magwells had a serial # stamped into them at least the 3 ive seen/handled which means its the 'reciever" according to the way they approved sten collectors gun
we all know semis can be converted thats not the point
the whole idea is readily convertable IE swaping parts with NO mods other then the replacement of parts
thats why the DIAS is prohib for the ar15
anyways your gonna do what your going to do if it works out thats another sten restricted only and thats good Im not against you its just what your saying is 100% opposite of what they have been telling/writeing me for 2 years.
if it does not work out your gonna lose the gun for sure maybe more...
Im relaying my 2 years of experince trying to get a semi auto approved what they SAY and write means nothing they will just say they have changed thier decision
Orig sten mk 3 magwells had a serial # stamped into them at least the 3 ive seen/handled which means its the 'reciever" according to the way they approved sten collectors gun
we all know semis can be converted thats not the point
the whole idea is readily convertable IE swaping parts with NO mods other then the replacement of parts
thats why the DIAS is prohib for the ar15
anyways your gonna do what your going to do if it works out thats another sten restricted only and thats good Im not against you its just what your saying is 100% opposite of what they have been telling/writeing me for 2 years.
if it does not work out your gonna lose the gun for sure maybe more...
As far a forming mag. housing boxes is concerned...
There were various methods used in Mk. II parts production. No matter if components were made in a converted garage or by an experienced metal fabricating firm, industrial tooling would have been used. Whether a flypress was used with a die, or a pressbrake used to fold a strip into a box, the toolmarks that would be left would reflect permanent tooling, and jig welding. The cuts for the magazine catch would likely have been made when the blank for the box was punched out. This requires a two stage stamping operation, pierce the holes first, then punch out the blank. No contractor would be making mag. housing boxes by hammering sheet steel around a forming plug held in a vise, or make the cuts for the magazine catch by chain drilling, cold chiselling and filing, or with an end mill. Dimensional standards could not be maintained, and the quantity of parts produced would be a joke. A one off box made in a home workshop is going to show evidence of hammering, filing, adjusting, etc. Operations to remove these marks would leave their own marks. Late Long Branch Mk. II housings are perhaps the most sophisticated - the collar and box are formed from a single piece of sheet, with minimal welding. Lines Brothers was an established, experienced manufacturing concern. They may have changed their processes, if a better, more efficient, more cost effective way of making parts was developed, but unless this happened, parts would have been made on the same tools using the same pattern of jigs and dies, with thousands upon thousands of indentical parts being turned out. I have observed variations in the spot welding pattern used to attach mag. housings to Mk. III carbine casings. Different shaped electrodes were used, so it was not just a different operator. Unlike Mk. II guns, Mk. IIIs are very consistant.
Laidler lists the Sten parts subcontractors. The more sophisticated parts tended to be made by established metalworking concerns.
There were various methods used in Mk. II parts production. No matter if components were made in a converted garage or by an experienced metal fabricating firm, industrial tooling would have been used. Whether a flypress was used with a die, or a pressbrake used to fold a strip into a box, the toolmarks that would be left would reflect permanent tooling, and jig welding. The cuts for the magazine catch would likely have been made when the blank for the box was punched out. This requires a two stage stamping operation, pierce the holes first, then punch out the blank. No contractor would be making mag. housing boxes by hammering sheet steel around a forming plug held in a vise, or make the cuts for the magazine catch by chain drilling, cold chiselling and filing, or with an end mill. Dimensional standards could not be maintained, and the quantity of parts produced would be a joke. A one off box made in a home workshop is going to show evidence of hammering, filing, adjusting, etc. Operations to remove these marks would leave their own marks. Late Long Branch Mk. II housings are perhaps the most sophisticated - the collar and box are formed from a single piece of sheet, with minimal welding. Lines Brothers was an established, experienced manufacturing concern. They may have changed their processes, if a better, more efficient, more cost effective way of making parts was developed, but unless this happened, parts would have been made on the same tools using the same pattern of jigs and dies, with thousands upon thousands of indentical parts being turned out. I have observed variations in the spot welding pattern used to attach mag. housings to Mk. III carbine casings. Different shaped electrodes were used, so it was not just a different operator. Unlike Mk. II guns, Mk. IIIs are very consistant.
Laidler lists the Sten parts subcontractors. The more sophisticated parts tended to be made by established metalworking concerns.
SNIP ........third time is a charm.
And that is not to say that we don't contribute to the problems. Often, the addiction to the toys will far overcome common sense, logic and fairness. I know I have often spent far more cash and time than I should on these things, and too often right before Christmas. Add to that the guns are the lightweight end to my addictions.....restoration of military vehicles are the heavy end.
Well, seems like we do have a few point in common and I guess I am quite as addicted as you are except that my income is low so my "toys" are less numerous. Took me 3 times too to find my "sister-soul" and besides buying SMGs and other guns, I love restoring antique cars/trucks though I'd be in heaven if I could restore a tank.
Good thing I got 6 kids (and soon a second grand-daughter) to help me keep my feet on the ground.
J. Savoie
SGTMAJSTEVE
Regular
Hey guys I've heard of someone about 20 yrs. back had a converted auto ceased for testing. They actually loaded it with underpowered ammo to see if it would fire f/a, of course it did, he argued that by doing that they made it fire illegally! But in the end, he lost it!
It all depends on the people that do the testing.
These's a good tec. in Ottawa named Gary, he's very fair, he supports gun owners as long as they don't try to pull anyting over on him.
I'd talk to him, he could help with everything.
It all depends on the people that do the testing.
These's a good tec. in Ottawa named Gary, he's very fair, he supports gun owners as long as they don't try to pull anyting over on him.
I'd talk to him, he could help with everything.
I should point out that a M3 receiver can't be machined, it has to be formed in dies that are not available, otherwise it should be doable. Too cost prohibitive to make the dies though.
A Lanchester requires a mould and the ability to melt and pour wax. A one-off should be doable by sand-casting IF you have a dewat to use as a pattern.
The MP38 receiver is possible to make, but would be EXTREMELY difficult to machine. Think big CNC knee mill, expensive dividing head, lots of tooling, a big, long lathe and hours upon hours to do a "one-off". Cheaper and easier to just buy the SSD made one, unless you have a big CNC mill and the talen to program such a complex part.
The MP40 is a stamped part. Again, I suspect that it would be difficult to build properly, though you could probably machine a reasonable facsimile from seamless tubing... but then parts kit availability enters into things.
An open bolt SMG caused to short-stroke with underpowered ammo is not firing "illegally" nor is it firing "full-auto". The gun is simply malfunctioning because the ammo is not powerful enough to drive the bolt back to capture the sear.
There are loads of cases where IPSC race guns with their very light triggers and a lot of use, empty the magazine with one pull of the trigger. This is NOT full-auto fire. The sear is simply worn and not catching the hammer properly which is a malfunction. Nobody has ever had such a gun confiscated for being a "full-auto".
In both cases the gun is malfunctioning and the repetitive fire is not controllable nor reliable. Sometimes the thing might empty the mag, sometimes you might get a single round or anything in between. THAT is not FA in anyone's books.
There is no reason an M3 replica couldn't be made with seamless tubing. No it wouldn't be historically perfect but it would look and work just fine. The Valkrie Arms M3 is made from tubing. Beggars shouldn't be choosers.
As well as the US made MK3 Stens are made on tubing when the originals were made from mandrel wrapped flat sheet, tacked together along a spine. And nobody seems to be complaining about that historical inconsistency.
A real Sten MK3
US made reproduction (tubing)
There is an 80% supplier in the US who is producing a wrapped and seamed tube blank for the Mk. III. If a mag. housing with tabs still in place were used, and welding and finishing done very carefully, a very accurate reproduction of a Mk. III could be made.
There was plan circulated for a jig which could be used to form the housing tabs from the casing.
It is possible to apply a steel strip along the top of a DOM tube to simulate the seam, if desired.
Claven2 - there is a supplier in the US offering an 80% MP-40 tube, with the longitudinal ridges. It is a machined tube, rather than a pressing, but the appearance would be pretty close.
There was plan circulated for a jig which could be used to form the housing tabs from the casing.
It is possible to apply a steel strip along the top of a DOM tube to simulate the seam, if desired.
Claven2 - there is a supplier in the US offering an 80% MP-40 tube, with the longitudinal ridges. It is a machined tube, rather than a pressing, but the appearance would be pretty close.
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This thread has been viewed over 15,600 times. There seems to be a LOT of interest in making guns of this sort.
There is quite a variety of not-prohibited-by-name designs that could be possible candidates for recreation. Biggest hurdle is the lack of parts kits. Scratch building all parts raises the bar substantially.
There is quite a variety of not-prohibited-by-name designs that could be possible candidates for recreation. Biggest hurdle is the lack of parts kits. Scratch building all parts raises the bar substantially.
Stens aren't all that inaccurate, although the sights on a Mk. III do not help zeroing. I watched a friend break three clay pigeons with five shots at 100 yards with a Mk. III, firing prone with a forearm rest. This gun had one of the bronze bolts, first one I had seen. Used as a carbine, from the shoulder, single rounds, or very short bursts, good shooting isn't a problem. With a bit of practice, longer bursts can be placed where wanted.
stencollector
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Bronze bolts are not as durable. They were a wartime expediant, and were declared substandard rather quickly.
The are plenty of blueprints around for the original bolts. If Spencers open bolt design makes it through the hurdles, I should be able to source some originals.
The are plenty of blueprints around for the original bolts. If Spencers open bolt design makes it through the hurdles, I should be able to source some originals.
SGTMAJSTEVE
Regular
SORRY, BUT YOUR WRONG, I was standing in the Gun Shop that used to be in Wpg. Supply where we bought them. A guy came in & told us what had happend to him.They simply said buy under loading ammo it would fire full auto. There was a case over the converted Israili Uzi's selectors also, but I don't remember exacly what happend there.I do know people lost them!
The Wpg. police even took my BAR. dewat! as illegal parts!! & I'm a collector!!
Make no mistake IT DID HAPPEN!!! wrong or not, maybe it wouldn't happen today, but it did then!
There is no reason an M3 replica couldn't be made with seamless tubing. No it wouldn't be historically perfect but it would look and work just fine. The Valkrie Arms M3 is made from tubing. Beggars shouldn't be choosers.
As well as the US made MK3 Stens are made on tubing when the originals were made from mandrel wrapped flat sheet, tacked together along a spine. And nobody seems to be complaining about that historical inconsistency.
A real Sten MK3
US made reproduction (tubing)
I find it odd that some people won't even consider the closd bolt Sten, but are perfectly OK with using seamless tubing for a MkIII which I would NEVER consider because it does NOT have the top spine - go figure.
With a lathe and a milling atachment (don't even need a dedicated mill), the bolt is no biggie at all.
