My 1200 round review of my Raven9 PCC

Canuck44

Canuck44

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Terrace, B.C.
I have now got 1200 rds thru my Raven9 Platinum version and thought it might be timely to post a review on the gun.

I'll start by saying fit and finish of this carbine is excellent. Upper and lower mate perfectly, tolerances are tight. Finish is Black Cerakote.

Early on there have been some issues. First I had two firing pins break. While both were immediately replaced by Lockhart with an extra pin, no charge or questions I have to say in over 60 years of shooting I have never had a firing pin break before in any on my firearms. Both broke with less than 200 rds thru the gun. I have since shot over 1200 rounds thru the gun without issue. I don't expect another but will carry a back up PCC to any competitions I intend to shoot.

The 2n issue came as a bit of a surprise in that it will not shoot a bullet that has any evidence of a flat point or hollow point. I simply decided to use only 115 gr - 135 gr round nose bullets in this gun. It will not load reliably load FP or RNFP bullets of any weight and I have tried, If you are thinking of using the gun for home defense where you might want a cartridge wearing a hollow point or flat point bullet this carbine is not for you. The carbine lacks a feed ramp relying solely on a throated barrel to guide the cartridge to the chamber. It will load round nose bullets out to 135 grains without issues. It would not load reliably 158gr round nose bullets which came as a bit of a surprise. Note when I say not reliably I experienced a nose up jam or a bullet jammed into the base of the barrel at least once out of every 10 rounds I attempted using several different RNFP and hollow point bullets from cast to FMJ Factory or Reloaded. I also used several different Glock and Glock style mags in my tests.

Now moving to what will the gun shoot, Bring on your round nose bullets weighing up to 135 grains, Accuracy has been excellent out to 50 yards using several different red dot sights and one 1x x 5.5x scope. I can't hold well enough to comment on accuracy beyond 50 yards freestyle or see fine enough to comment out to 100 yards. My intended use is for IDPA PCC Division Matches as well as any club two gun shoots that might come my way. For those reasons this gun is a player and will allow me to preform as well as my limited talents will allow. Again, out to 50 yards this gun is a tack driver with five rounds within 1" at 50 yards from a rest.

Other thoughts:

If I buy another Raven9 I would also order a plug to replace the top charging handle or not buy the charging handle at all. Using the side charging handle is faster to manipulate than the top charging handle and is faster. Sorry guys I know some/most of you come to this platform from an AR and will argue this, but the timer doesn't lie. Too, there are better charging handles out there that are compatible with the Raven9 so if you must have one, go aftermarket.

The 2nd thing on my don't list is to not buy is the Lockhart muzzle brake. I have the TK brake on another carbine and it will keep the muzzle flat while shooting the Raven as well. They cost the same. Use the saving to buy the TK brake, there is no comparison.

Wish List


  1. Future generations of the gun have a ramp to allow the use of flap point bullets. This would make the gun a player in the home defense market.
  2. Lockhart offer a complete upper similar to the Freedom Ordnance offerings for their FX9. A 10" version would be perfect. By complete I mean complete. Sell it for around $550 Cdn and my cheque book is out.
  3. Offer a hydraulic buffer option as an initial offering. It doesn't have to be in-house but it would cater the gun to the Competition Shooter market.

This rifle is a high end product with a few minor scabs which I have outline above. It is above the price point of the PCC plinkers serving this market. It is made in Canada which might protect it from the jaws of Trudeau. If you can afford quality then this is the PCC for you. Lockhart does offer a builder's option for those who like to roll their own guns, which is to say the money pit crowd.

Take Care

Bob
 
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I appreciated the balanced review and revealing things I did not know (like lack of feed ramp).

For higher end options, the GHM9 is in a similar price range to a Raven Platinum (if equipped with a hydraulic buffer). Politics aside, is choosing Lockhart Tactical over B&T worth it?
Edit: genuine question about trust in the manufacturer relationship (rather than comparison to a firearm unrelated to your helpful review).
 
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Yes I think so. I am not aware of the obvious bad blood some here have for Lockhart. I travel my own road when this subject arises. My experience has been good with Lockhart. I am not aware of the other gun you reference. I suspect it is made by a similar size company. I guess you pay your money and takes your chances.

Take Care

Bob
 
I talked to Lockhart about a 10" barrel and they said no, so I have one in storage at the CBSA in Mississauga.
Also my dealings with Lockhart have been positive.
 
Not being able to feed HPs is a complete deal breaker for me. I was thinking about buying one so im glad i read this.
 
Murray 3-D said:
Not being able to feed HPs is a complete deal breaker for me. I was thinking about buying one so im glad i read this.
Click to expand...

Remember the report is for my gun only and may not reflect ohers experiences.
As am observation my experiences with both Lockhart and Freedom Ordnance is they are small companies who may not have the resources to thoroughly beta test their products as well as say. S&W, Ruger, CZ or Beretta. I own or have owned products of the three larger companies and have not experienced the fundamental issues the two smaller companies. This not to say the smaller companies should not be supported. Just be aware that you might be a part of the Beta testing team..

Take Care

Bob
 
Good review. As always, appreciate your level of detail.

I do have a question though with regards to the HPs. You mentioned this is not a HD rifle because it doesn't feed HP BUT....what HPs have you tried?

One of my guns reliably feeds one type of HP consistently but fails big time on other brands.

If you have tried multiple brands of hollow points and none of them are reliable, then I would concur that the Raven is not a HD gun.

But...as I have found out in my FX9, it does not like 115gr (think it was that) Critical Defense HP, does not like 147gr Winchester Defender HP, does not like 115gr Sig V-Crown HP, BUT does feed 147gr Federal HSTs HPs, 147gr Gold Dot G2s HPs (for the most part), and 138gr Syntech Defense HPs. So for mine, it is suitable as a HD gun, but only running certain types of HP ammo.

So curious what HPs DID NOT run well in your Raven.
 
Every brand the RCMP uses. I pick up loaded ammo of the range after they are out shooting. I have no use for HP so I don't buy it. My FX9 will reliably consume the HP ammo my Raven chokes on. In any given Mag the Raven jams up with at least two rounds of either HP or RNFP ammo. With a failure rate of at least 20% and the risk of bullet set back due to the bullet being pushed deep into the case before clambering, happened to me with the resulting letting off of the round. You only need one of those experiences to end the use of FP ammo to discourage further testing. Why Lockhart did not build a ramp into the Raven or at least throat the barrel and part of the lower to guide the cartridges into the chamber is beyond me. They had to have used only RN bullets when testing their preproduction guns - see my comment regarding smaller manufacturers building guns for the retail market.

Thegazelle the issue with the Raven is not unlike the Beretta FS pistol only one works and the other not always. The entrance to to the Ravens barrel as you know is not throated, in fact it is barely rounded. Do unless the nose if the bullet is rounded the bullet has virtually no chance of entering the chamber. The bullet hist just below the chamber opening and either jams there or rides nose up and jams. I have shortened rounds, lengthened them with no improvement. I met a shooter at the IPSC Qualifier on the weekend and he had a Raven fully modified. He had a 'smith throat the barrel and a portion of the lower which solved the feeding issue. He had added a AR buttstock, changed the buffer and springs, turned down the barrel to lighten the gun, installed a muzzle brake and installed a much lighter forearm, and replaced the trigger. Way more than I am prepared to do. Even with all those mods installed I still would be pretty lame when it comes to shooting these carbines. As Eastwood said in one of his films, "a man has to know his limitations".

Take Care

Bob
 
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SPOIL ALERT:

Well at round 1,298 my Raven9 experienced it's third Firing Pin break! Fortunately Lockhart had sent me two firing pins when the last one broke so I came home and quickly replaced the firing pin. The good news is I am getting pretty good at replacing the pins. Well you can figure out the bad news. I have written Lockhart asking for a replacement pin AND I asked to have a technician phone me so we can discuss, what appears to be a major issue with my Raven9.

I spoke to one of the competitors at the IPSC Qualifier held at my club on the weekend. He and his wife compete with a very much modified Raven9. Both have experienced broken firing pins. Her, one at 7,000 rds and he has experienced five broken pins. I don't think he mentioned how many rounds he has on his gun.

Something is remiss. Silence from Lockhart is a bit disappointing, although, they do send out replacement pins quickly. They have a problem with either the bolt, the pins themselves or the firing pin spring. I would hope they address it. Nobody I know wants to get good at replacing the pins.

Personally if you are considering buying a Raven9 I would let the company know you aren't going to spend north of 2 grand for a Raven9 if you will be buying a gun that will cause you to spend time ordering replacement pins.

Take Care

Bob
 
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Canuck44 said:
SPOIL ALERT:

Well at round 1,298 my Raven9 experienced it's third Firing Pin break! Fortunatelu Lockhart had sent me two firing pins when the last one broke so I came home and quickly replaced the firing pin. The good news is I am getting pretty good at replacing the pins. Well you can figure out the bad news. I have written Lockhart asking for a replacement pin AND I asked to have a technician phone me so we can discuss, what appears to be a major issue with my Raven9.

I spoke to one of the competitors at the IPSC Qualifier held at my club on the weekend. He and his wife compete with a very much modified Raven9. Both have experienced broken firing pins. Her, one at 7,000 rds and he has experienced five broken pins. I don't think he mentioned how many rounds he has on his gun.

Something is remiss. Silence from Lockhart is a bit disappointing, although, they do send out replacement pins quickly. They have a problem with either the bolt, the pins themselves or the firing pin spring. I would hope they address it. Nobody I know wants to get good at replacing the pins.

Personally if you are considering buying a Raven9 I would let the company know you aren't going to spend north of 2 grand for a Raven9 if you will be buying a gun that will cause you to spend time ordering replacement pins.

Take Care

Bob
Click to expand...

I read your posts with great interest. Definitely not good with the firing pin break with the PCC. Pretty shocking that it's happened a few times to multiple people, given the crazy price point of this thing.
 
Not familiar with the Raven9 bolt firing pin set up (like an AR9 as an example) but I know there are titanium firing pins that could solve your problem. The ones below are guaranteed to last 10,000 rounds and there are people reporting they have exceeded that limit with no breaks or mushrooming whatsoever.

h ttps://ironcityrifleworks.com/product/ar9-titanium-firing-pins
 
thegazelle said:
I read your posts with great interest. Definitely not good with the firing pin break with the PCC. Pretty shocking that it's happened a few times to multiple people, given the crazy price point of this thing.
Click to expand...

You can say that again and be right twice. J this gun, build wise stands head and shoulders over my FX9. Fit and finish is excellent and the price reflects the effort put into the gun but.....

I am going out today and I'll try some more HP ammo. I'll get back to this thread.

I prefer my optic prepared Sig 320X5 for home defense over a PCC or Shotgun for a hoast of reasons. My concern is reliability and firing pins breaking every 400 rds does not lead to a boost in confidence. I suspect Lockhart knows they have a problem but silence is not always golden. In any event I remain confident the company will address my issues. If they don't the gun becomes an expensive range toy.

Take Care

Bob
 
M&P 40 said:
Not familiar with the Raven9 bolt firing pin set up (like an AR9 as an example) but I know there are titanium firing pins that could solve your problem. The ones below are guaranteed to last 10,000 rounds and there are people reporting they have exceeded that limit with no breaks or mushrooming whatsoever.

h ttps://ironcityrifleworks.com/product/ar9-titanium-firing-pins
Click to expand...

It is my understanding the pins are not interchangeable. I could be wrong. I don't own am AR. If someone knows for sure please comment here. Thanks though, for the heads up. edit: FOR THE RECORD THE PINS ARE NOT COMPATABLE WITH AR PINS.
 
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Canuck44 said:
It is my understanding the pins are not interchangeable. I could be wrong. I don't own am AR. If someone knows for sure please comment here. Thanks though, for the heads up.
Click to expand...

No worries Bob anytime, maybe reach out to Lockhart to confirm.
 
I was asked if an AR firing pin would work in the Raven. My shooting buddy brought an AR firing pin and is not combatable with the Raven
I have not pulled an FX 9 firing pin to see J. If the FX9 uses an AR firing pin I would conclude it would not fit the Raven.

I tried two different HP cartridges, one Rem. and the other a Win. Both jammed the gun. Neither reached the chamber. It is not an issue for me as I much prefer an optic sighted pistol for home defence over a shotgun or carbine.

Take Care

Bob
 
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CV32 Learned today they are shipping two pins to me under warranty. Pins should arrive Monday or Tuesday. No comment yet regarding ongoing breakage issue. They surly know there is an issue and have chosen to not comment yet. I think it is time they do. You use the gun, as I do, for competition, the last thing we need is to lose a stage due to a breakage. I'lll post back here if I hear anything from Lockhart.

Take Care

Bob
 
thegazelle said:
So your FX9 pin and spring won't work in the Raven?
Click to expand...

I just went and looked at the firing pin photo in the Freedom Ordnance catalog. It is a completely different design and I think a better design than what is found on the Raven9. The bolt of the Raven9 would and could be redesigned internally to accept a similar firing pin. Not sure why Lockhart went with the design they did. If the breakage is as common as it appears to be it will only a matter of time before Lockhart changes to a similar design found in the FX9. I hope the change comes soon. The only change necessary is to reconfigure the firing pin channel. It would be costly though but not cost prohibitive.

Take Care

Bob
 
I've got about 800 rounds through my raven 9 platinum and also no issues so far (knock on wood!). Very similar round count to break in, about 150rd and I usually use 124gr.
 
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