- Location
- Nova Scotia
I think it comes down to personal preference. As everybody likes different cars, same with guns, and scopes, or ammo. Or it's the if I buy a $$$ gun it has to be good, mentality
Which .22LR shoots better? How can you know?
- Thread starter grauhanen
- Start date
A good mental attitude goes along way in life... some people might need to have the most exepensive gear and do all the "science" before they can achieve a good mental attitude.... others just relax and let it happen to the best of their ability.
It's clearly hard to win a big rimfire competition with a bad barrel and ammo combination but the mental aspect never really goes away no matter how imperfect the perfection of the gear is.
I suppose it's always nice to have an excuse if that's the way you roll.
Good philosophical discussion.
It's clearly hard to win a big rimfire competition with a bad barrel and ammo combination but the mental aspect never really goes away no matter how imperfect the perfection of the gear is.
I suppose it's always nice to have an excuse if that's the way you roll.
Good philosophical discussion.
Since this is being posted in the rimfire section, my answer is NO
The rate limiting steps is and will always be the ammo... rimfire match ammo just isn't all that good when compared to what true match ammo can be reloaded to in centerfire.
All I ask is that my rifle shoots to the "potential" of the ammo. From this perspective, ALOT of rifles will shoot to similar outcomes. how any rifle performs vs your specific batch of ammo will help you 'feel' that one rifle shoots better then another. Change the ammo, you may very well change the placings of the rifles.
Jerry
The rate limiting steps is and will always be the ammo... rimfire match ammo just isn't all that good when compared to what true match ammo can be reloaded to in centerfire.
All I ask is that my rifle shoots to the "potential" of the ammo. From this perspective, ALOT of rifles will shoot to similar outcomes. how any rifle performs vs your specific batch of ammo will help you 'feel' that one rifle shoots better then another. Change the ammo, you may very well change the placings of the rifles.
Jerry
X2 I agree with Jerry. I have shot Center-X, Xact, Midas, SK match, Eley Match, RW50 etc etc all out of multiple match grade Anschutz and 're-barreled rimfire rifles and my .223 reloads outshoot them all and cost less than the rimfire ammo...
But in general I find that Center-X has shot the most 'consistently good' out of the rifles I've had.
I imagine there are. Some rifles are very particular with their ammo and others less so. Most 22 with good ammo will shoot better than the shooter. Ive gotten some really poor ammo that still shot ok. Some I wondered exited the barrel... Remington...
if one takes the time to actually read the question then the answer is thus
rail gun fixture,
testing facility
and shoot all 30 lot numbers and record results
then perhaps analyze to see if a pattern has developed
if the ammo is not available for purchase rip up the guarantee
that is about the only THEORETICAL way that might be somewhat conclusive (for those 30 lots of ammo that were tested)
my cement bench, seb rest, great table manners or my 1 pice rest and graham windflags in dead calm with my 50 different lots of ammo might be reliable but only if having a good day
and you need to shoot 1 lot at a time and then change rifles with the same lot quickly as not to let the prevailing comditions change
rimfire is a lot harder to test than centerfire
Jeff
rail gun fixture,
testing facility
and shoot all 30 lot numbers and record results
then perhaps analyze to see if a pattern has developed
if the ammo is not available for purchase rip up the guarantee
that is about the only THEORETICAL way that might be somewhat conclusive (for those 30 lots of ammo that were tested)
my cement bench, seb rest, great table manners or my 1 pice rest and graham windflags in dead calm with my 50 different lots of ammo might be reliable but only if having a good day
and you need to shoot 1 lot at a time and then change rifles with the same lot quickly as not to let the prevailing comditions change
rimfire is a lot harder to test than centerfire
Jeff
The question is a little more ordinary than these things would seem to allow. Who in Canada would have 30 lots of .22LR match ammo to test, let alone a rail gun fixture?
If this the only way that the question can be answered, no one could ever know which good rifle shot better than others. Of course, that just might be the case.
______________________
On a slightly different note, how many new-to-Canada lots of match ammo have come to Canada in this calendar year (not including entry level ammos, such as SK and non-EPS Eley)?
I would guess that it's much less than twenty.
- Location
- Nova Scotia
It's a personal preference. Also everybody has their own opinion of what they consider accurate. Do I expect 2 different guns with 2 different barrels, from seprrate lots of steel, with 2 different rifling machines to shoot equal? No, it's physical impossible.
For many years Walther and Anschutz seemed to dominate as far as factory accuracy goes... I think they will still rank well. Ammunition seems to be the key factor when there are many quality barrels available to choose from.
It is possible that two different rifles will shoot with the same degree of accuracy.
It is possible that two different rifles will shoot with the same degree of accuracy.
So that others can understand how poorly "great" ammo can be.. watch the first 20rds at 100yds then see what happens at 200yds.
he is a very good F class shooter and using some very nice gear. Same ammo, tested lot... a prize in every box.. sometimes a few cause they like you.
Did the conditions suddenly go bonkers? nope... If you understand the level of your shooting and potential performance of your set up, large sample testing will show you how wonky the ammo is.
Since there is no way to sort match rimfire ammo, all you can do is put your best wind call on and pray....
YMMV
Jerry
not really... just look at the results from past 100yds challenges. All sorts of rifles, typical types of match ammo... very similar results. My factory bolt rifle is right in there vs the fancy match bolt rifles when you take large sample size of testing into account and ALL shots are counted.
A good match rifle is rarely the limiting factor in rimfire.
Jerry
Jerry's factory Scorpio recorded a 1.29" average. Perhaps it can do better. The eleven or so rifles that had averages less than 0.999" in 2022 and 2023 were all "fancy" rifles with the exception of a single Savage Mark II.
Jerry is absolutely right that a good match rimfire rifle isn't the limiting factor.
Without very extensive testing under controlled conditions where there is no wind (or with superlative wind reading skills, which few if any of us will have), it will be very difficult to determine which good rifle might be a better shooter than another.
The most important variable, shooter and wind not included, is the ammo. The difficulty with .22LR match ammo -- no matter the name on the box -- is that very few lots seem to be uniformly consistent. In other words, the ammo in a lot isn't always uniform. Results on target may vary with ammo from the same lots.
When several groups shot with the same lot of match grade ammo are compared, they will often have quite a bit of difference between them. Some may be quite good, while others are quite large.
Why? The ammo itself ioften sn't consistent, even when it's something like Midas + or Tenex.
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What does this mean?
Don't go looking for or chasing the "special" rifle that will give great results. It's more about the ammo than the rifle. Good rifles are much easier to find than good ammo.
And it's not the name on the ammo box. A box of ammo is rarely a reliable yardstick to measure how a rifle performs. Great lots of match ammo that are uniformly consistent are not as common as shooters might prefer -- or as common as they think. A brick of top tier match ammo can have some boxes that are better than others. Some rounds in a box may be better than the others in the same box.
For those looking to "up their game" with .22LR shooting, whether it's from the bench or rimfire PRS, when it comes to selecting a firearm the priority should be to find a rifle that's suitable for the purpose. That's usually much easier than finding the ammo that will be as good as the rifle.
Don't go looking for or chasing the "special" rifle that will give great results. It's more about the ammo than the rifle. Good rifles are much easier to find than good ammo.
And it's not the name on the ammo box. A box of ammo is rarely a reliable yardstick to measure how a rifle performs. Great lots of match ammo that are uniformly consistent are not as common as shooters might prefer -- or as common as they think. A brick of top tier match ammo can have some boxes that are better than others. Some rounds in a box may be better than the others in the same box.
For those looking to "up their game" with .22LR shooting, whether it's from the bench or rimfire PRS, when it comes to selecting a firearm the priority should be to find a rifle that's suitable for the purpose. That's usually much easier than finding the ammo that will be as good as the rifle.
And regardless of the gear, there's no replacement for experience and coaching and working through issues and round count downrange.
Give someone like Jerry or Grauhanen a random 10/22 and a box of CCI SV, up against some rich newbie with the finest gear and ammo money can buy, and my wager is on the experience.
Give someone like Jerry or Grauhanen a random 10/22 and a box of CCI SV, up against some rich newbie with the finest gear and ammo money can buy, and my wager is on the experience.
Appreciate the vote of confidence but there is still a need for a good rifle/barrel and ammo to make small groups. Experience can only take you so far... it can't outrun the flyers and any mechanical limitations.
The target was actually shot at 100m. You can see that the core groups were all sub 1" (9rds). The flyers took it above that and some of the flyers were quite out. This was with Lapua XACT of all things... insanely expensive and now I know why these 2 bricks were not picked up by shooters who typically shoot this type of ammo. Conditions I shot that target were very good... flyers happened at random times and next shots went right back into the group.
A bad lot of ammo doesn't care about price.. pity Lapua decided that their QC could wander this much. And if you are counting ALL your shots, it only takes one flyer to really screw with your average.
Jerry
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I would gladly take your money. A random 10/22 and cci sv is a pretty farfetched comment. I get that you like the guys but I feel that is one heck of a challenge.
I'm not rich but I am a newbie willing to put up some groups against a run of the mill 10/22 and cci sv.
All in fun of course. cheers my guy!
Jerry's right about not being able to outrun the flyers (I like that way of putting it). In rimfire shooting ammo is the wild card. Even with match ammo, let alone non-match. No one can know what a round will do until it does it. You can't tell by looking at it and the name on the box is not a guarantee.
In Canada we don't seem to get those "killer" lots that are sometimes made, the ones that are characterized by almost every round going where it's aimed, where it's supposed to go. There may be a reason for this that's unrelated to random luck but that's the subject of another thread.
In Canada we don't seem to get those "killer" lots that are sometimes made, the ones that are characterized by almost every round going where it's aimed, where it's supposed to go. There may be a reason for this that's unrelated to random luck but that's the subject of another thread.
- Location
- Nova Scotia
Hahaha haha clearly you don't know who he is.
- Location
- Nova Scotia
I'm not sure. My 2.3" avg 100 yard group with my 10/22 target lite says other wise. The accuracy ain't there.
