Bonded vs all copper

This is the only Barnes I have ever recovered, and coincidentally it was not from the furthset shot taken!
This particular bullet went in at the base of the neck and broke a neck vertebrae, stopping on the far side of the neck of a rutted up buck!
The buck was high tailin' for the deep bush when I shot him, it's not a shot I would normally pick !
Edit note, recovered weight is 149.75 grains from 150
Cat
 

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iron cat said:
This is the only Barnes I have ever recovered, and coincidentally it was not from the furthset shot taken!
This particular bullet went in at the base of the neck and broke a neck vertebrae, stopping on the far side of the neck of a rutted up buck!
The buck was high tailin' for the deep bush when I shot him, it's not a shot I would normally pick !
Edit note, recovered weight is 149.75 grains from 150
Cat
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Cat What was the distance and what was the cartridge ? RJ
 
iron cat said:
Cartridge is .303 British
Distance was just under 166 yards IIRC
Muzzle velocity BTW, is 2774FPS
Cat
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I have had great luck with trophy bonded bullets in both 270 and 308. I have only recovered two bullets with all the rest passing thru! Expansion is textbook perfect in both recovered. Weight loss was minimal. The 270 was 130 and weighed 127.9 grains recovered. The other was cut by the meat saw when when I was processing the buck. Shots distances ranged from 65 to 265yards.
 
Joel said:
If the monos not expanding worries you, you can use an LRX which are designed for longer ranges and easier opening.
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sounds as if the complaint is often that TSXs open but loose petals
Have read both arguments against Barnes, too much and too little

they'll get it right sometime with their continued R&D with user field experiments
Have seen Barnes go through transitions over the years, they are not afraid to have Joe Public try something new
 
I think Barnes would do more damage if they shed their petals.

At high velocity there is no problem, but impacts under 2400fps typically result in narrow wound channels.

I don't see this changing so long as Barnes continues cold forming (swaging) their bullets. The resultant work hardening means that Barnes bullets are significantly harder than lathe turned alternatives.

I think this may also contribute to Barnes reputation for copper fouling. In my experience there are other monos that leave hardly anything behind in the bore by comparison .
 
Interesting posts on bullet performance on game. I've never used monometal bullets, relying instead almost exclusively, at least more recently, on Nosler Partitions and Accubonds in all of my rifles, although in my early years of hunting I did use Sierra Game Kings quite a bit. So, just out of interest, I have a couple of questions for you guys who use monometals:

1. How do they compare with standard jacketed or bonded bullets with respect to accuracy? Does it take more load development to get them to shoot well?

2. Are there any specific loading procedures peculiar to monometals needed to get them to shoot well? I'm thinking of things like seating depth.
 
Here is how hard it is. These are shots 3, 4, and 5 out of a box of bullets. Done. By and large mono metal bullets shoot extremely well with minimal load development.

yYOJe8s.jpg
 
Hand Skills said:
I think Barnes would do more damage if they shed their petals.

At high velocity there is no problem, but impacts under 2400fps typically result in narrow wound channels.

I don't see this changing so long as Barnes continues cold forming (swaging) their bullets. The resultant work hardening means that Barnes bullets are significantly harder than lathe turned alternatives.

I think this may also contribute to Barnes reputation for copper fouling. In my experience there are other monos that leave hardly anything behind in the bore by comparison .
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Have wondered the comparison with other monos myself
Barnes alloy makes for a hard bullet, harder to conform to the rifling thus the issues with pressure spikes
they tried to address this with the 3 bands of power! triple shock which just gives the monometal somewhere to move to
other monos don't have the same problem, smooth shank seems to work for them, pointing to a different alloy hardness
The jacket of a cup/core is a hard material, less fouling and the soft lead body gives in to the rifling for a good seal

would like to see a crush test of the monos to understand their strengths and weaknesses
If a CX(ie) is soft enough to conform easily plus not copperfoul the tube, that might be a game changer
I'm not sold yet
 
2100 said:
I’ve had good results with Barnes but I’m interested to hear about other styles of bullets. If something works better at realistic hunting ranges I like to hear .
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Different guns like different ammo. In particular the monolithic copper can be finicky with slower twists as the heavier coppers tend to be longer and need a bit more twist to stabilize. I run Accubond LR in my 270wsm 150grn 3050 FPS muz. and Hammer HHT 160grn 3050 FPS muz. in my 6.8 western. Very similar cartridges and both have excellent results. But the Hammers are more efficient. What cartridge are you rock chucking with?
 
These are 8mm 160gr TTSX from an Elk. They work but it seems every time I'm left wondering if even hit them and no real blood trail.
 

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I’m of the opinion monos are just as good inside 200 yards as leaded, and fall behind leaded from 200 and out, speed of chambering dependent I’m talking broad averages. Google game meat x-rays, it’s for this reason I’ll happily use them as far as they can ethically be shot in anything my family eats. Fortunately we all have our own choice in this matter.

I also long ago threw away weight retention as an optimal measure of bullet performance on game, even though monos generally do quite well at that metric. It’s proven one of the least important factors to me, and I’ve actually sought bullets that shed some weight. Not specifically for the weight loss, but rather what that weight loss means.
 
I've grown weary of the mono vs bonded debate... everyone has made their choices and mostly want to defend those choices. I have tracked many animals shot with both styles and to be honest, for the most part, on most game at most reasonable ranges I prefer a standard cup & core bullet. I will say this, 8 times out of 10, I will choose a bonded bullet over a mono metal and about six times out of 10 I will choose a C&C over a bonded. Each manufacturing style has it's strengths and weaknesses... you do your best to guess what you might run into in the field and make your choice accordingly. Most failures occur due to poor shot placement or using the bullet under circumstances for which it was not designed, ie. Wrong impact speed. That is not simply a matter of a mono at long range, because the opposite is also true. I used an NBT out of a fast rifle when I anticipated a 300 yard shot, but ended up shooting at 20 yards, the result was a mess... it worked, but it was a mess.
 
hoytcanon said:
I've grown weary of the mono vs bonded debate... everyone has made their choices and mostly want to defend those choices. I have tracked many animals shot with both styles and to be honest, for the most part, on most game at most reasonable ranges I prefer a standard cup & core bullet. I will say this, 8 times out of 10, I will choose a bonded bullet over a mono metal and about six times out of 10 I will choose a C&C over a bonded. Each manufacturing style has it's strengths and weaknesses... you do your best to guess what you might run into in the field and make your choice accordingly. Most failures occur due to poor shot placement or using the bullet under circumstances for which it was not designed, ie. Wrong impact speed. That is not simply a matter of a mono at long range, because the opposite is also true. I used an NBT out of a fast rifle when I anticipated a 300 yard shot, but ended up shooting at 20 yards, the result was a mess... it worked, but it was a mess.
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Maybe take a nap then. if its making you weary! Why post if its such a bother? PS the topic is mono vs bonded!! Not cnc so dont get all high on the horse after condeming people sticking up for their favourites that are actually the point of the original post. You are correct about every bullet having strength and weaknesses but the OP is talking about Mono vs Bonded. Your a very skilled guide but there are many on this site with similar experience. I have also experienced the hand grenade performance of the earlier Nosler Ballistic Tips before the jacket problems were rectified.
 
Longstud said:
Maybe take a nap then. if its making you weary! Why post if its such a bother? PS the topic is mono vs bonded!! Not cnc so dont get all high on the horse after condeming people sticking up for their favourites that are actually the point of the original post. You are correct about every bullet having strength and weaknesses but the OP is talking about Mono vs Bonded. Your a very skilled guide but there are many on this site with similar experience. I have also experienced the hand grenade performance of the earlier Nosler Ballistic Tips before the jacket problems were rectified.
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Back on your meds.
 
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