How bad is my Bore?

RP22

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I need some help from the crowd here dertermining what kind of shape my savage 22-250 barrel is in. I recently got a borescope but I have no frame of reference when it comes to this 12 year old barrel. Starting at the chamber end there is some fairly significant (I think?) Fire cracking in the throat area and first couple inches. Then there is a few inches of pretty heavy (I think?) Copper fouling. The rest of the barrel has lesser copper fouling and also surprisingly quite a few craters and pits.
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Can anyone help me understand what I'm looking at? Is this normal for a factory barrel? I don't know for sure but probably around 750 rounds through it. Accuacy wise I can't complain, still shoots fine.
 
You have a bore scope now start cleaning until is looks better. I have never see that much copper fouling before. You are going to need something better than Hoppes.
 
Let accuracy guide you about your barrel. Some guns require fouling to shoot. Don’t fix what’s not broke. If it’s still accurate, just keep doing what you’ve been doing!! When accuracy becomes a problem then deal with the problem. JMO
 
I would be concerned about the "fire cracking" at the throat - I had read that accuracy goes away in the one shot when a chunk of that breaks out. I am like you - not really certain what I am looking at in a bore scope - but I have advantage of some new, unfired "in the grease" Schutz and Larson and custom McGregor barrels to compare with. The only useful thing I have found to do with the bore scope is to monitor the cleaning that I try - becomes VERY obvious what is working and what is not - despite advertising or what was said about the cleaning product by the person at the store.

So far as I know, you have copper residue from the bullet jacket to remove and some soot / carbon from the burning gunpowder - I do not know of any "one" product that will remove both - so use a copper remover to go after the copper, and then a carbon remover to go after the carbon. With that bore scope, you will be able to monitor your progress, and if the substance of choice is working or not. I have found in some older mil-surp type rifles that were likely fired and never cleaned for 50 years - as if the fouling was laid down in layers - no more copper comes out - then go at it with carbon remover - some of that comes out - then back to getting more copper out - as if going through layers in there - looking with bore scope would remove all that "guessing".

Does not have to be sold as "gun stuff" to work - an acquaintance uses a de-carbon stuff made by Mercury Marine to clean out their engine heads - I believe, at least at one time, GM sold a similar stuff for releasing carbon in an auto engine. Apparently works great on the carbon in a rifle bore. Carbon is carbon - you likely need or want something that will dissolve or soften it - regardless what it is marketed for. I was able to flush out a lot of old crap from ignored bores using boiling water poured through - a lot of stuff - rust, insect residue, etc. came out with that - as shown by my bore scope inspection afterwards.

Using that bore scope - you might want to inspect the crown or the "leade" area ahead of the chamber - both are potential sources of "wonkiness".

So far as I know, there is no way to restore that to looking "new", with pits and fire cracking visible - but that may or may not affect what you consider to be adequate. A competitive Bench rest or target shooter guy might toss out barrels that a hunting guy might use for decades. Lapping / fire lapping, etc. is simply going to be removing barrel metal - might "look" better to some people - as mentioned above - is all in the shooting - the group size that the barrel and you produce. I am not certain that the amount of copper deposit that you show is good - I think that should be removed - but is all about whether it shoots well enough for you or not - I have never been able to predict "group size", by looking in the bore with a bore scope - maybe there are some people who can do that.
 
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A further comment about bore cleaning - Hoppes #9 - what your great GrandPa or GrandPa used in the 1950's probably worked well. Circa 1990's most components were not longer allowed to be used in USA - so the stuff was completely re-formulated - but much effort made to keep the smell the same - so today's buyer is buying the same brand name, the product has the same smell, but has none of the original components - I have read on CGN it might be okay to use as a cologne today, but not really what you want as a "bore cleaner". I am like an earlier poster - most of my bores (older ones that have seen previous neglect) - get over night soak in foaming WipeOut - then snug fitting bronze bore brush - repeat - many times. You did not get that much crap in that bore in one session - should not expect to get it all out in one session, either.
 
It looks pretty rough but if your still happy with how it shoots just keep using it the same way you always have. I'm curious what the chamber just in front of the throat looks like? As far as cleaning goes, I have used J.B. bore paste and Kroil on several rifles with excellent results. Cheers
 
Starting at the chamber end there is some fairly significant (I think?) Fire cracking in the throat area and first couple inches.


View attachment 836574

Can anyone help me understand what I'm looking at? Is this normal for a factory barrel? I don't know for sure but probably around 750 rounds through it. Accuacy wise I can't complain, still shoots fine.
interesting pic. Wouldn't think a 22-250 would be prone to firing til hot enough for cracking, but it is somewhat overbore with maybe a bad shoulder angle? IDK. I have an older 243 with a couple K rnds through that looks better, different barrels/cartridges = different results I guess
TFS
 
Thanks everyone for the replies! I have been trying to attack the copper but it is stubborn. So far I've tried Hoppe's copper remover and also recently Shooters Choice copper remover. I'm sure they are working but yeah, it's going to be a slow process with that much to remove. I'm also going to try the JB bore paste and maybe some others. Found some other threads on here that mention just plain janitorial grade ammonia.

At this point I'm ok experimenting with this barrel, it still kills coyotes within 300m which is it's primary job, but I've been wanting to re-barrel it anyway. I'll try to work some copper out, then shoot some groups and see what happens. I expect I might have to re-tune my loads but we'll see.

Thanks for the input, I'll report back once I have some results.
 
interesting pic. Wouldn't think a 22-250 would be prone to firing til hot enough for cracking, but it is somewhat overbore with maybe a bad shoulder angle? IDK. I have an older 243 with a couple K rnds through that looks better, different barrels/cartridges = different results I guess
TFS
22-250 is a known barrel burner I think so I wasn't too surprised about the fire cracking. As I said I just have no reference so wasn't sure if it was good, bad, normal, or WTF happened haha. I think the 22-250 AI with steeper shoulder prevents some of this effect.
 
What's your opinion of this stuff? I've got some and I feel like it doesn't do a good job, been looking to try wipe out...
Wipe Out is really all anyone needs to clean a dirty bore. Leave it in the bore overnight, during the day leave wipe out in the bore approximately two hours. I have never seen a bore that needs more than four applications to obtain a perfectly clean bore.

For barrels with extreme copper fouling I use this:

https://montanaxtreme.com/products/copper-killer/

Don't normally use it that often, but this Montana Extreme Copper Killer will cure STD's and will repel most corrupt politicians! LOL.......:)

Otherwise, Wipe Out is all one needs. Let the chemicals of Wipe Out do the work for you. The days of scrubbing bores with bronze brushes are over in my opinion.

https://sharpshootr.com/wipe-out/

https://budgetshootersupply.ca/prod...eout-brushlessbore-gun-cleaner-5-0oz-aerosol/
 
I’ve cleaned a lot of absolute crap barrels, most of my rifles are around 100 years old and they ain’t making any more. What I use that works well is alternating cycles of hoppes and rb-17, hoppers on patches and rb17 on an overly tight bore brush. Like I’ll use a .35 cal brush in a .311 bore. Before I attack it with cleaner though I pour a full pot of boiling water through the barrel from the breech end. Get that barrel HOT. Hoppes really works if you get it super hot, it’ll peel crazy amounts of carbon and copper, and then the RB-17 will attack any rust or oxidation in the bore further lifting the above deposits. I’ve taken bores that look unshootable with next to no visible rifling back to bright and shiny with a couple hours effort this way.
 
What's your opinion of this stuff? I've got some and I feel like it doesn't do a good job, been looking to try wipe out...
I can't compare, I bought a large jug and it keeps working well enough for me
Though have resorted to Sweets 762 or Barnes cr-10 on occasion, with caution, for the absolute worst problems

Procedure can make a difference, running patches only can take forever
Once the bore is wet, I'll use a plastic brush for a couple passes, next patch usually is filthy
 
I'd vote against using any Bore paste until you've tried good Copper Solvent and maybe Wipeout for the Carbon/crap residue. Any abrasive will do more damage than good unless you've tried many other things.
PS - I bought a used .223 Ruger American which had much fire-cracking but Not as much 'other stuff. It did collect a lot of Copper and 'soot' but that's normal. Those clean up with a bit of patience, may need 2-3 tries to get it clean. And there is a facet of shooters that support "Copper Equilibrium" as a 'fact', but I'm still waiting to hear that F-Class shooters support it. Until then, I'll 'scrub 'er clean'. It still shoots sub-MOA out to 175 with a Bushnell 18x scope. Here's pics of my .223 back in Apr-MaY-2020, the last is after 2-years (Aug-2022) of use and cleaning. Still shooting sub-MOA this Summer ->

4-21 Ruger Leade to rifling 2.jpg

4-21 Ruger 8in past chamber.jpg


5-16 Ruger bore -1 nr chbr.jpg

Ruger 223 ca 2-in past chamber 8-24-2022.jpg
 
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Check out a few YouTube videos on removing hard carbon. I've done several Hard carbon removals in the only way I found is wrapping a bronze brush with a patch and using JB paste. Yes reversing it in short stroking it and it still took a very long time to do full removal to metal. However I have yet to find any negative results from this practice. Once you get there it becomes easier to clean. And yes I've even used a drill mounted cleaning Rod to get that very stubborn carbon ring removed. These are Extreme Measures but I have taken some very neglected barrels back to life. Firecracking is only managed through things like Niko firelapping. But I think we have seen folks say how it shoots before you have to take these measures and make your decisions. My two cents anyway
 
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