Interesting
I had not considered the thought of relatively little meat damage relative to lethality.
Its a good point.
Undecided about a 45-70
- Thread starter swray1992
- Start date
I had not considered the thought of relatively little meat damage relative to lethality.
Its a good point.
wallythacker
Member
- Location
- In a .45-70 chamber
No to a 12" barrel. I had a 10" barrel BFR and the flames were insane. on a dull day they would blind me. Not to mention the recoil and horrid performance penalty you will endure. Maybe if you handload and work up a good combo.
Out of all my 45-70 over the years my Rio Grande had the smoothest slickest action of any of the 50+ lever guns I have owned. I think 16.5" is the shortest barrel I would consider. 18.5" or more barrel length is where I'd look.
If you are dead set on a pistol length barrel maybe you can find a good shape 444. It might tolerate a 12" barrel better because it starts with a 2-300fps advantage over the 45-70.
Out of all my 45-70 over the years my Rio Grande had the smoothest slickest action of any of the 50+ lever guns I have owned. I think 16.5" is the shortest barrel I would consider. 18.5" or more barrel length is where I'd look.
If you are dead set on a pistol length barrel maybe you can find a good shape 444. It might tolerate a 12" barrel better because it starts with a 2-300fps advantage over the 45-70.
unstableryan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Beautiful Okanagan Valley
You can crunch in as many grains of 3031 as you want with whatever bullet you have and it will come out quite well. Not the highest performance but no danger of too much but still pretty fast. 4198 will probably get you in trouble if you load it the same way. I've used 3031 for 500 grain Hornady roundnose because an absolute max compressed load is safe and puts them out at about 1550. In my experience. It's also a way of the bullet not being able to be seated any deeper than you already did. I haven't done any ballistics gel testing with that one but I'm sure it goes through as many blocks that you own. I have three and now I want to try it. I just loaded some Elmer Keith 158 grain style bullets at just subsonic in 9 mm that did 46 in of gel. I'm supposed to be a professional but I still can't guess what's going to happen sometimes. 45-70 is a reloaders rifle. 340's @ 1000 are super fun too. I'd just prefer a 18-22 inch barrel for more fun shooting and I love the idea of compact guns, I have some but they sometime compromise a bunch.
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unstableryan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Beautiful Okanagan Valley
Sorry, I might have gone to deep into why the 45-70 is one of my most fun rifles. It's in the top couple go to out of a bunch. I have a JM 22" SS model I think. Blued and wood, but I put fibre optic sights and a laminated stock on it.
Curiously, what makes you think they are "not particularly accurate"?
As to efficency, mild to wild.... You can make it anything you want it to be.
The 45-70 has been around for over 150 years, despite all the so called "better" cartridges, so it must be doing something right.
This one was an extremely accurate rifle designed for match shooting out to 1,000 yards .
It has since gone through a complete change many years ago , though,
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Right, so a couple points there;
Not particularly accurate compared to more modern bottle neck, high BC cartridges I mean. Certainly not as accurate as any of your standard PRS options. Accurate enough for hunting distances perhaps, I am happy to concede that.
Certainly there are no military units using them to engage targets at distance these days, despite their history in long range applications.
The History is kinda what I am getting at with my initial question and for the most part, seems to be the answer. Although the terminal performance at relatively low velocity due to the massive projectile is a compelling argument.
I am totally OK with the cartridge (as if it matters what I think), I was just curious if there was something I was missing. Turns out I was. The point obsesses1b made was new to my thought process and quite interesting.
makes me wonder if the 45/70 would make a good subsonic hunting round.
Awesome!
Still waiting on delivery of this beast, but it will be fun as well!
Can't wait to send a 500 grainer out to 1K!
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If shots are close I sometimes run subsonic ish....( 1015 fps) on called in bull elk during the rut... put one 405 hard cast through the high shoulder and they don't go a yard..my usual load though is a 405 at 1680 fps out of my 16.5 " barrel. Tones of authority.. especially if you hit structure and very little meat damage.
For certainntypes of hunting the 45-70 is every bit as relevant today as it was in the day of the Buffalo. In some instances it out performs today's high octane super cool modern hunting rifles.
yes, very interesting.
I dont think i will get one but I do think I will keep exploring the uber heavy and slow 308 I have been thinking about.
Fun project. I tried 200gr pills over 6gr of red dot in my 308. Velocity was right around 1k fps but sadly those long heavy bullets wouldn't stabilize in my 1:12 20" barrel.
tactical lever
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Fox Creek, Alberta
Some mis-information, dis-information, and un-information in this thread about short barreled 45-70.
Short barreled guns are inaccurate. False! A rifle doesn't need very much barrel at all to achieve high accuracy. Some of the the most accurate rifles on the planet, have relatively short barrels, as a short heavy barrel oscillates and vibrates less than a longer barrel.
45-70 is inaccurate. False! A cartridge case in a barrel is merely a pressure vessel, and the bullet merely sees pressure behind it, and it matters very little whether it is short, long, has a sharp shoulder, sloping shoulder, double radius, or no shoulder.
You lose a lot of velocity. Not really. With the 45-70, you can load pistol powder to medium fast rifle powder. With some of the quicker powders under a little pressure, I've seen that some of them are burnt by about 8" down the barrel, to 99% at 12".
tactical lever
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Fox Creek, Alberta
Also mentioned that the 45-70 was inefficient. At what?
Can be loaded with copper jacketed bullets, monolithic copper alloy solids, cast lead, and generally from about 300-480-ish grain in a lever action.
Depending on pressure, I can pick from 3 or 4 different primer types to use, and a fairly wide variety of powders. Have loaded about 10 gr. of Bullseye behind a 375 gr. cast bullet, which was about as loud as a .22 LR (maybe), but still ripped through about 7" of green aspen. Can be loaded up for cape buffalo on the other end of the spectrum. Believe Alaska Fish and Game have put it on par with the .375 H&H for stopping power.
Some of the suggestions don't really make much sense to me. Shotguns fall far behind for accuracy and penetration with regular slugs.
Nothing wrong with a short barrel rifle; seems like the fella wants something compact. So long as you realize it'll be loud, and regular open sights will be harder to shoot, with precision.
I don't hear overly great things about Chiappa, but maybe better now. I like the older Marlins myself and would get a slightly longer barrel.
Can be loaded with copper jacketed bullets, monolithic copper alloy solids, cast lead, and generally from about 300-480-ish grain in a lever action.
Depending on pressure, I can pick from 3 or 4 different primer types to use, and a fairly wide variety of powders. Have loaded about 10 gr. of Bullseye behind a 375 gr. cast bullet, which was about as loud as a .22 LR (maybe), but still ripped through about 7" of green aspen. Can be loaded up for cape buffalo on the other end of the spectrum. Believe Alaska Fish and Game have put it on par with the .375 H&H for stopping power.
Some of the suggestions don't really make much sense to me. Shotguns fall far behind for accuracy and penetration with regular slugs.
Nothing wrong with a short barrel rifle; seems like the fella wants something compact. So long as you realize it'll be loud, and regular open sights will be harder to shoot, with precision.
I don't hear overly great things about Chiappa, but maybe better now. I like the older Marlins myself and would get a slightly longer barrel.
- Location
- Calgary, AB
Is that a Boyds laminate?
unstableryan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Beautiful Okanagan Valley
Very likely. I'm not 100% sure. Bought it on here. I do like it and all the other boyds I've owned before. I like this one more than I liked the original. A little slimmer.
- Location
- West Central Alberta
Looks darn good.
To start with i like lever guns ( well actually any gun) and i have several old ones.
The 45-70 in question is a JM Marlin 161/2 barrel.
Can be loaded from heavy hitter down to plinkish loads. Accuracy is good for what it is. Paint can lids offhand at 100 meters is good enough for me. Skinner sights.
Nice and flat so it goes in saddle scabbard, behind the truck seat, on the quad etc.
Good useful all around rifle in my opinion.
The 45-70 in question is a JM Marlin 161/2 barrel.
Can be loaded from heavy hitter down to plinkish loads. Accuracy is good for what it is. Paint can lids offhand at 100 meters is good enough for me. Skinner sights.
Nice and flat so it goes in saddle scabbard, behind the truck seat, on the quad etc.
Good useful all around rifle in my opinion.
tactical lever
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Fox Creek, Alberta
With heavyish handloads suitable for a strong lever the 45-70 delivers as much momentum as a 375 H&H.
More bullet weight, but less FPE, the temporary cavity might not be as big, but the 45-70 will punch a deep hole when loaded right.
In the Hornady #? book, one of the authors shot a big cape buffalo bull through the shoulders. It ran with a couple more bullets put into it before it got away. The tracker announced 2 buffalo down and dead. There was a cow perfectly hidden and the 45-70 bullet passed through 4 cape buffalo shoulders and stopping just under the hide.
No 30 cal anything will match that, and not sure any 375 of any flavour can top it either.
