Undecided about a 45-70
- Thread starter swray1992
- Start date
In the interest of fairness, I'm going to present the flip side of the coin, as seen from the perspective of a guy who has owned at least several .45-70's at any given time for the past 45-ish years.
The short barrel will result in reduced velocity, but there is no reason for a shorter barrel to be any less accurate than a long one. The difference lies in how easy it is to shoot it well; the shorter sight radius makes the accuracy tougher to achieve. If you use an optic, even a simple red dot, that "problem" goes away completely.
In terms of recoil, you can make it as harsh or as easy as you wish; there's probably no cartridge that can be bought in such a wide range of power/recoil levels. The gun can be a dinosaur-slayer or a plinking pussycat, and you can actually buy factory loads at those extremes even if you don't reload. If you roll your own, all the better.
Personally, I would never be without a couple .45-70 rifles; it's one of my all-time favourites. The cartridge gets a bad rap, mostly from people who don't have one and just read/repeat the warnings of others who don't have one. The shortie will bark louder and kick more and wouldn't be my recommendation for a first one...but that's true regardless of the cartridge you want.
The short barrel will result in reduced velocity, but there is no reason for a shorter barrel to be any less accurate than a long one. The difference lies in how easy it is to shoot it well; the shorter sight radius makes the accuracy tougher to achieve. If you use an optic, even a simple red dot, that "problem" goes away completely.
In terms of recoil, you can make it as harsh or as easy as you wish; there's probably no cartridge that can be bought in such a wide range of power/recoil levels. The gun can be a dinosaur-slayer or a plinking pussycat, and you can actually buy factory loads at those extremes even if you don't reload. If you roll your own, all the better.
Personally, I would never be without a couple .45-70 rifles; it's one of my all-time favourites. The cartridge gets a bad rap, mostly from people who don't have one and just read/repeat the warnings of others who don't have one. The shortie will bark louder and kick more and wouldn't be my recommendation for a first one...but that's true regardless of the cartridge you want.
- Location
- Blaster land, Okanagan BC
I’m a huge fan of a short compact firearm, that said I wouldn’t want a 12” 45-70. Even if it’s just a range gun, I would want to get the most out of the cartridge accuracy wise. 20”-24” would be better imho, would be the same for a 30-06 or any magnum cartridge. My sweet spot for 30 cal’s is 18”-20”, shotguns 12.5”-20” is my preferred barrel length. I’m not loosing any real performance in either of those at those lengths for my uses.
I don’t find actual felt recoil to be any worse with a short barrel, perceived recoil yes. The muzzle blast from a short barrel is so much louder and it makes it seem like there’s more recoil, it’s just a mental thing I find. Overall weight is a factor in recoil, my light single shot 12g kicks like a mule compared to my short barreled 870’s. The Cooey is longer but way lighter.
I don’t find actual felt recoil to be any worse with a short barrel, perceived recoil yes. The muzzle blast from a short barrel is so much louder and it makes it seem like there’s more recoil, it’s just a mental thing I find. Overall weight is a factor in recoil, my light single shot 12g kicks like a mule compared to my short barreled 870’s. The Cooey is longer but way lighter.
Why 12”? The look?
Get an 18” and enjoy it. Kicks similar to shooting slugs from a shotgun
John summed it up perfectly above
Recoil is a matter of the load chosen. Accuracy is the ammo and build quality of the gun. Chiappa ain't the best of quality.
Recoil is also subjective.
405gr slug at 1100fps is like shooting a 410. Speed that bullet up to 1300fps and you feel a bump. At 1500fps it's noticable. At 1600fps it becomes uncomfortable for some. 1800fps really hits good. 2000fps becomes unenjoyable for long strings of shooting. The 4570 is the mouse to moose cartridge.
For a range toy get what ever makes you smile. As for nuisance bears 4"-6" of barrel really won't make much difference on game performance if you're shooting one in your yard. The 4570 is alot of fun and great on game up close but it is not the hammer most think it is. I say that as a fan boy of the 4570 to
Recoil is a matter of the load chosen. Accuracy is the ammo and build quality of the gun. Chiappa ain't the best of quality.
Recoil is also subjective.
405gr slug at 1100fps is like shooting a 410. Speed that bullet up to 1300fps and you feel a bump. At 1500fps it's noticable. At 1600fps it becomes uncomfortable for some. 1800fps really hits good. 2000fps becomes unenjoyable for long strings of shooting. The 4570 is the mouse to moose cartridge.
For a range toy get what ever makes you smile. As for nuisance bears 4"-6" of barrel really won't make much difference on game performance if you're shooting one in your yard. The 4570 is alot of fun and great on game up close but it is not the hammer most think it is. I say that as a fan boy of the 4570 to
Ok just to add a bit, I just traded for a newer Chiappa ridge runner chrome take down. 18.5” barrel. I’ve had several guide guns over the years but have migrated to ‘86s. Like them better and they are stronger. Not that the guide gun can’t take loads that are way too much. I know years ago Chiappa quality was questionable at best. I had their takedown mares leg and it was beautiful, action was silky smooth. Took the plunge, this one is very well finished and the action is very smooth. Feeds live rounds super slick. The skinner sights are awesome and take down makes cleaning easy. Hoping it’s as good after I start shooting it. Oh, with the half octagon barrel its heavy!
A short barrelled 45-70 would be too wicked to shoot. If one really wants to get into the 45-70 and have fun with it. Get a single barrelled action with a 28 - 32 inch barrel length. Due to the weight - Recoil won't be so bad and that will make it more enjoyable to shoot.
I love my 45-70 Marlin SBL, but one of the most helpful things about it I think is the ability of the threaded barrel to take a muzzle brake. I have shot all kinds of commercially available loads now, and with the muzzle brake on, all of them have kicked less recoil then my Browning X bolt in 308.
FatCatsDad
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Did you get one ?
I recently traded a 2018 Marlin (Remlin) for a Rem. Model 7 in 308 Win. and almost simultaneously picked up a JM stamped factory ported 4570 guide gun.
I used it on this year's Moose hunt with a vintage 2-7 Redfield scope.
Go longer for a range toy. Range = more shooting. So be comfortable, hit stuff and don't get blasted off the novelty too early. I've shot and owned 4570's from 12" to 30". My number one all time favourite and the only one I own now is an early 2000's XLR w/24" pipe. It gets a lot of hunting and load tinkering time.
I have no experiance with a 45-70 but do own a Rossi r92 with a 16” barrel in 44mag. It’s lots of fun to shoot a good barrel length for a sight plain and a heck of a lot cheaper to shoot than 45-70. Do some reading on the round out of a carbine. I’d have no issue shooting at a nuisance bear off my deck out to 50-70 yards. Food for Thought. Good luck!
Looks like a fun toy, but it has a couple things going against it, especially if you want it to "group" at any kind of distance:
1. 12" barrel
2. Made by Chiappa
From my personal experience/ownership of each:
Except for a Sharps that was exceptional, I can't say I've ever had a Chiappa that I liked
Henrys are just okay
JM Marlins are quite good, especially if you ever want to scope it, but on rare occasions can be finicky about feeding
Pedersoli 86s are very very nicely made
Winchester and Browning 86's are the tits. I wouldn't trade my Winchester 86 for anything - one exception: the new Winchesters have a tang safety and rebounding hammer that are kind of stupid. The rebounding hammer is easy to disable. Even with the silly extra "safety" features though, I still feel that the Miroku Winchesters are top notch, well-made firearms - and it'll certainly group really well at 100 yards. The Brownings and Pedersolis just have the traditional half-c0ck safety.
Just my opinion.
slinkylegs
Regular
- Location
- Hudson Bay, SK
It's interesting to see how different people handle recoil differently. I had a 45-70 Guide Gun from around 2011-2016, and I never had any issues with the recoil with 350gr reloads. I say that as someone who would have weighed 150 pounds soaking wet back then. However, a 300 Win Mag? Nope, I have no use for that, that feels worse than my old Husky 9.3x62. Even a 30-06 felt worse to me than the 45-70, not sure why that was the case.
All that being said, 12" for a 45-70 is asking for trouble in my opinion. The balance will likely feel off, and I would anticipate a lot of barrel jump, noise, and general discomfort. Mind you, perhaps you can handle that kind of thing better than me, but I would personally look for a longer barreled rifle instead.
All that being said, 12" for a 45-70 is asking for trouble in my opinion. The balance will likely feel off, and I would anticipate a lot of barrel jump, noise, and general discomfort. Mind you, perhaps you can handle that kind of thing better than me, but I would personally look for a longer barreled rifle instead.
- Location
- Western Canada
I had a Marlin 1895 Trapper 16". Great bush gun, compact enough but still has decent ballistics. Accuracy is decent, certainly not a precision gun though. We did send a 450gr hand load through a cast iron engine block with ease though lol definitely has some ass behind it.
I ended up selling it this year though due mainly to ammo cost/availability. I ended up buying a sweet 14" custom 870 from AAC in BC. 32" OAL.
Fully upgraded it cost me almost half what the Marlin did and 12g ammo is often half the cost of .45-70 ammo (unless you diligently reload).
I couldn't be happier with my choice but that's just my two cents man. I use it for hiking and fishing in Grizzly/Cougar/Black Bear/Wolf country and it fills the role perfectly.
I ended up selling it this year though due mainly to ammo cost/availability. I ended up buying a sweet 14" custom 870 from AAC in BC. 32" OAL.
Fully upgraded it cost me almost half what the Marlin did and 12g ammo is often half the cost of .45-70 ammo (unless you diligently reload).
I couldn't be happier with my choice but that's just my two cents man. I use it for hiking and fishing in Grizzly/Cougar/Black Bear/Wolf country and it fills the role perfectly.
westcoaster
CGN Regular
- Location
- Central BC
I just shoot the factory 405 grns in my 1980 era Marlin, I think it is a 20" barrel but it has never been of of interest for me to measure. It kills fine but from my experience no different than a 3006.
A couple of thoughts:
- I feel the " handiness" quality is overrated. Many of my rifles have 24" to 26" barrels and I don't find them awkward in any situation compared to a 18" - 20" barrel.
- I think that the comments on accuracy with a very short barrel are well considered. I am picturing shooting my Marlin with a 12" barrel....
- With the 20" or whatever it is, my Marlin, on a bench will touch holes at 100. It's a sweet shooting rifle. Light recoil (with what I shoot) and it killed a bear a couple of summers ago that walked into my cottage while I was reading - sure wound my dog up.
- I only have one take down and would not repeat the experience - just don't see a benefit.
FWIW I would go with a 18" to 24" barrel and spend the extra for a "good" one, I am not well enough versed on the various current 45 70's to recommend a what is good these days. Or as one poster said, and I can vouch for this, the older Marlins are outstanding for fit, finish, accuracy and slick cycling. The sting of bad quality far out lives the sting of a few extra bucks up front.
