mebiuspower
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Morontario
Ares Defense G-35 Gas Piston Kit
- Thread starter steyr_m
- Start date
Greenhorse six
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
About the roll pin bending/shearing,this sounds like its because of the force of the pistion return spring having to much force on a pin that wasn't designed to take that force.thier talking on ARF about using stright pins for that.
the force is supposed to be on a cut-to-length spring that compresses until it's solid, taking the force off the pin. The trick is, cut spring too long and the gas tube won't go in - too short and the pin is taking the load. So careful setup is a must.
I'm more concerned about the off-centre thrust on the piston. People have already reported bent op rods. It's a fundamental design problem that can be papered-over with stronger op rods and/or guide sleeves.
I'm more concerned about the off-centre thrust on the piston. People have already reported bent op rods. It's a fundamental design problem that can be papered-over with stronger op rods and/or guide sleeves.
Yes, but so is the ZM LR-300. Available, simple design, proven for more than 12 years, and fits on your small pin lower. www.zmweapons.com
ZM is not a piston -- but a reworked recoil spring to a DI gun.
Having played with both the Hk and the ZM - the Hk is the standard.
I would suggest that for 99.99% of users the DI system is perfect. The 1% of the 1% has the Hk option.
If BigRed or I really thought we needed piston guns in Iraq we would have them -- I use my Hk416's but have not taken them operationally, although with the 3rd and fourth I am debating bringing them over to Iraq.
Having played with both the Hk and the ZM - the Hk is the standard.
I would suggest that for 99.99% of users the DI system is perfect. The 1% of the 1% has the Hk option.
If BigRed or I really thought we needed piston guns in Iraq we would have them -- I use my Hk416's but have not taken them operationally, although with the 3rd and fourth I am debating bringing them over to Iraq.
OK, so what hits the bolt and causes it to move?
Like all the rest of them the bolt carrier is what is stuck (either by gas on the gas key - or the piston) the rearward motion of the bolt carrier is what forces the bolt to unlock as it moves and truns thru the cam pin.
If you asking as to the fact that gas from direct impingement hits a gas key - then yes that is what happens
the only thing "revolutionary" about the ZM is the redesign of the bbuffer and recoil spring assembly
If you asking as to the fact that gas from direct impingement hits a gas key - then yes that is what happens
the only thing "revolutionary" about the ZM is the redesign of the bbuffer and recoil spring assembly
Excellent. That is correct. Now when you were playing with the ZM, you must have neglected to pull the top rail/cover off the handguard, or not looked through the ventilation holes, because it's awfully hard to not notice the almost 7 inch long PISTON that hits the carrier. It's one of the first piston type AR systems, and still one of the best. If you actually shot it, you would also have noticed it's inherent lack of recoil and lift, due to the short stroke of it's smaller and lighter bolt/carrier assembly. The only way you can get this type of recoil reduction on a DI type AR is with an adjustable gas block and a recoil damping buffer, and a lot of tuning. I've shot $4000 tricked out JP rifles that barely approximate the handling characteristics of the ZM.
True. Since the 60's, people have been trying to improve on Stoner's design. There are all sorts of solutions, some successful, most not so.
That is a gas tube that the recoil spring is wrapped around, Alex. it doesn't move. Under the reciprocating part (which is attached to the bolt carrier) is a non-reciprocating gas tube.
Repeat: Neither the ZM, nor the ZM-in-a-prom-dress being sold as a Para is a piston rifle. It is direct impingement.
The whole name of that game was just to allow a folding stock.
So, we've taken a spring whose heat treatment is crucial to it's function, and wrapped it around the hottest part of an AR. Brilliant. Heat treatment is destroyed by subsequent heating, BTW.
So, now you have CGN's top operator, and a senior product development engineer (mechanical) telling you the same thing.
Oh, I handled and opened up the rifle at SHOT, figured out it was DI, and got confirmation from the Para engineer. He was unhappy that I revealed it was DI to the crowd he had around him.
There were more piston ARs at the SHOT show than a dead dog has maggots. Got real boring real fast.
Do you own this type of rifle? Do you know how it works? Obviously and blatantly no.
I own several, and unlike you, understand how they work, and unlike you, have inspected their parts. For you to understand how it works, and for others, here's the deal:
1)The gas block is similar to a DI AR, except the gas tube is only about 4" long
2) From there, it's all different. The bolt carrier is permanently attached to an 11" long piston, with a cupped end.
3) The cupped end slides fully over the protuding gas tube, where a small clip holds it in place.
4) The clip is held in place by the recoil spring (pressure), which is positioned around the piston.
5) When it fires, the gas emerges from the tube, pushes on the piston over the barrel, moving the bolt and it's attached piston backwards. The gas action happens 7" away from the carrier. No gas is spewed into the bolt/carrier/locking lugs and anything else. This is the achillies heel of DI type AR's.
Simple. A DI system means the gas is what operates the bolt/carrier DIRECTLY. Direct Impingement. This is indirect, so no longer a DI type system. Maybe it can be called a hybrid piston, or a hybrid DI, but it's not DI as accepted in conventional AR's. Do your homework.
Dan, if you're ever visiting back here in Ontario, be happy to let you shoot mine at the range. I'm sure you will be impressed, whatever system you call it. The proof is always in the shooting.
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why don't people just take pictures of the real thing , have it taken apart and settle this one and for all?
I played with one years ago - my memory told me it is a DI system with a really long gas key so the recoil spring can wrap around it. It was a 90's thing when people were obssessed with folding stock before they figured out all the cool guys were wearing armour already.
I played with one years ago - my memory told me it is a DI system with a really long gas key so the recoil spring can wrap around it. It was a 90's thing when people were obssessed with folding stock before they figured out all the cool guys were wearing armour already.
Besides, I'm not the only one who finds this system superior. I'm not sure how much of an engineer or firearms designer Bartledan is, or what his shooting ability is. Maybe he's a rifle guru, but when Rob Leatham, Todd Jarrett and Jerry Barnhart shoot rifle, their ZM's is what they shoot. And their stuff is something like 12 years old. I'll take their advice, thanks.
