You either missed (as in, not hitting anything vital, as suspected) or failed incredibly at tracking. I have seen dozens of bears hit with various .45 cal centerfire rifles with many different bullets... none of them were lost, all went down quickly, there was always lots of blood and there was always little meat damage... as in, a thorough and effective wound channel without much ancillary bloodshot, and there was always a pass-through... apparently your mileage varied.
.223 for everything, the gunnutz version
- Thread starter CamV
- Start date
You either missed (as in, not hitting anything vital, as suspected) or failed incredibly at tracking. I have seen dozens of bears hit with various .45 cal centerfire rifles with many different bullets... none of them were lost, all went down quickly, there was always lots of blood and there was always little meat damage... as in, a thorough and effective wound channel without much ancillary bloodshot, and there was always a pass-through... apparently your mileage varied.
Apparently the concept of "margin" is lost on some... lots of things technically work, but are not advisable. Right up there with .223 and frangible bullets are larger fast centerfire rifles with frangible bullets at close range, yes, they work, but they make a bloody mess, or how about using hard solid bullets at long range? Same deal. Sure, If you have a well constructed heavy for caliber bullet in a 1:7 .22 cal with sufficient capacity, you can kill alot of stuff... I am betting that alot of non-reloaders with off the rack rifles are buying Winchester White box and giving it a go... my hesitancy to sign off carte blanche, is that even within the concept of ".223 on medium and heavier" game, there are degrees of margin, and at some point, that tips the teeter-totter, from acceptable to unacceptable. If you are doing it right, more power to you, if you are doing it wrong... you suck.
Okay, so theres no issue at all with a 1:7 or 1:8 twist barrel and 73gr, 80gr, 88gr ELDM or 77gr TMK, but more so that someone else might try to use a less suited bullet?
in that case I see where you're coming from. The 77gr TMK is indeed too messy for me when put on the shoulders too. If I had a short barrel and was going to be looking primarily at long range it would be the choice, otherwise would try to keep it to ribs.
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I can’t see a ELD-M reach vital on heavy game if it it’s bones even a moose rib lol! The ELD-X totally came apart on y moose and it was from a 30-06 178gn at 280m, so I can’t imagine a smaller lighter more fragile bullet doing any better, but again I might be wrong…
Funny you pick 2 calibers that to me are problematic. Both have excessive recoil and/or muzzle blast for white tail deer and smaller game.
The wounded animals that I've seen came from hunters that are either a lack of shooting practice (which can be remedied) or arseholes who I no longer associate with. If you don't like to practice it's either the gun you are using is unpleasant to shoot or you're not committed to your ethics.
In any case endorsing using a marginal caliber (to say the least) at a yardage that an average hunter is incapable of producing repeatable results is reckless. Choose the correct caliber range, choose a hunting set up that puts your target within a range of your skill and practice.
If you don't have patience for the right shot then go to the fair and win a unicorn.
Battlerifleelitist
CGN Regular
- Location
- Annapolis Valley, NS
It's certainly very capable for deer/black bear at least within 200m with proper length barrels.
Lesser margin for error than the usual cartridge choice.
I'd say it's possible to use for moose/elk with the crazier heavy bonded/partition bullets, but it's entering into further elements of marginal. Perhaps 22 valk/ 22 arc or something could give
Lesser margin for error than the usual cartridge choice.
I'd say it's possible to use for moose/elk with the crazier heavy bonded/partition bullets, but it's entering into further elements of marginal. Perhaps 22 valk/ 22 arc or something could give
The thing is though, the margin is bigger. Yes bigger. The flesh is stretched to its max and along comes a little razor snapping it like an elastic.
Using the bonded/partitions etc is actually going the opposite direction you want.
You'll get the penetration with a tmk/eldm.
And a much bigger wound channel
ELDX is trying to do two contradictory things. Hold together enough up close but expand properly very far away. Somethings gotta give.
We're talking about two different bullets. The behaviour of a ELD-X from a 30-06 has no bearing on the performance of a heavy for caliber ELDM, like Kodiak is experiencing in real life on real animals.
StinkyCoyote also killed deer, bears, elk and moose with the 123gr ELDM from a 6.5 Grendel. No issues with penetration there, and he could have told me it was a 180 grain Ballistic Tip from a 30-06 and I would have believed him
I know, it sounds like it makes no sense! But it is so.
Like I said, there have been a lot of reports of the ELD x having odd results on animals. Jacket too hard and the core too soft for the combination maybe? Not sure.
The M version has a larger gap at the front of the nose resulting in deeper penetration before they start to expand violently. Softer jacket so it doesn’t result in the splatter some people have reported having with the X version.
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
The 30-06 and 270 have excessive recoil and muzzle blast? Lol.
I have two friends who have been shooting the 375 H&H in model 70 Winchesters for over 25 years, and have killed everything from Pronghorns to Cape Buffalo with them.
I asked what they used for the small deer and Anetlope ans was told a 270 grain bullet, with minimal meat loss, no more than a faster , lighter cartridge.
Cat
I asked what they used for the small deer and Anetlope ans was told a 270 grain bullet, with minimal meat loss, no more than a faster , lighter cartridge.
Cat
