.223 for everything, the gunnutz version

I understand things get better over time and I'm in the group of rather be over powered than under powered, but the 223 with a 70+ grain bullet is better than anything that existed 150 years ago. Modern Man kind has been around for say 130,000 years and the 223 with 70+gr beats 130 thousand years of time frame.

It clearly will work people have been hunting since before the 1880's

it may not be the best and it may limit the hunter, but it will work on North American game.

Should we all carry 300 winmags because they hit hard? Or should we know our limits and stick to them. A 223 with a 70+ gr bullet will beat a bow and arrow 100% of the time and people still use them
 
elKrusto said:
I am enjoying this thread but I just don't think you will ever convince me that what you are doing is smart. It just seems that you guys are either recoil intolerant or you are just stretching the limits to try to prove something.
It can't be for money savings as everything hunting related is so expensive, an extra 10 cents a cartridge savings over say a 243 can't make or break a guy?
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I think this might quantify the concept most guys struggle with. The why of it.

I’m relatively successful as far as BC hunters go and I like being successful and having my hands on animals. If there was ANY appreciable difference between a fast twist 22 centerfire and a heavy for caliber “match bullet” like the 88 ELD m, I would use that instead.
If anything, a fast twist 22 is a more effective, faster killer than a hamstrung “magnum” using a hard bullet that makes pretty pictures in magazine ads.

As to the why… I get more permanent tissue damage in a rifle where I can spot my impacts, and get off a second shot faster than I would with my 300 Ultra with 168 or 180 TSX’s or my 280AI with 150 TTSX’s.
Why would I use my 7wsm or 300 win mag when I don’t gain anything by using those ones?

Bullets matter more than headstamps.
 
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RickF said:
The one thing I never read in these 223 debates is from the guy who used a 223 with bullets like Kodiak suggests, and that guy saying that it didn’t perform anything less than perfectly.
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Like the other guy, it’s rare that some one will tell you about the failure!! Those times where it didn’t work has plans! I had a moose one year that took five rounds to the chest before going down with a 30-06… never happened before, never happened after. Could happen again though!! Would a 223 would have done better? Who knows!
 
RickF said:
The one thing I never read in these 223 debates is from the guy who used a 223 with bullets like Kodiak suggests, and that guy saying that it didn’t perform anything less than perfectly.
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Take a guess why that is...
 
KodiakHntr said:
Because it doesn’t happen….
Thats your insinuation though correct? Or is it that you think guys are out running around wounding stuff left right and center?
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Funny, no one ever posts failures with 30-06, 270, all the magnums etc. Would love to see anyone tell me with a straight face that its not happening.

Heres what it comes down to. Do these bullets shoot through enough animal from plenty of angles to destroy enough heart and lung to kill it quickly? Yes.

Do they go through significant bone on the way? Yes.

Does anyone saying it's a bad idea have any evidence that the above is wrong? No. None.

Really not seeing how a round you can shoot more of, shoot better with, and practice more with that gets the job done with results that look just like the bigger rounds is a bad idea.
 
hoytcanon said:
1. Fear of recoil and and an unwillingness to admit it.
2. Hubris born from too much World of Warcraft, et al.
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3) it works, and whether you know that or like that doesn't make it stop working.

Hard on the ego and easier to sh*t on people you disagree with ? Yeah lol. But that doesn't make facts less facty.
 
Joel said:
Funny, no one ever posts failures with 30-06, 270, all the magnums etc. Would love to see anyone tell me with a straight face that its not happening.
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Here goes, shot a black bear at about 25 yards with a .458 Win. Mag, using factory REM. 510 grn soft points. Aimed right on the front shoulder, at the shot the bear dropped in a cloud of dust like hit with a sledgehammer, then managed to get up and disappear in the bush never to be seen again or recovered. Sparse blood trail that didn’t go very far and dried up quickly. Next day we thoroughly circled and combed the area again, no sign of iron bear.
 
Man I wonder if they make these new super bullets that make powder capacity and diameter and associated weight gains inconsequential in calibers besides 223

I have found that 338win isn't the greatest deer round due to lack of expansion with 250gr bullets and too much expansion (more like explosion) with 200gr ballistic tips.
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This might just be a ballistic tips thing...

My experience with 250 grain rn cup and core 338 bullets at slightly faster than a 338-06 will push them on deer has been dramatic to say the least. Same for 200's hdy spire points. And for that matter 250 grain woodleighs and 225 fusions. I used to use a 338 as a general purpose gun with moose, elk, bear and deer in season and around in the area I was hunting. I would have used a 223 but mine wasn't a 1:8 twist.
 
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conor_90 said:
Man I wonder if they make these new super bullets that make powder capacity and diameter and associated weight gains inconsequential in calibers besides 223
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Yep. But not all of them behave the same. Bullets in the same line but different diameters can behave differently. Same as the same bullets but spun at different twist rates behave differently.

I know you were just throwing shade however.

Most guys don’t much like the results of using bullets like those in larger calibers though. Excessive meat loss.
 
KodiakHntr said:
Yep. But not all of them behave the same. Bullets in the same line but different diameters can behave differently. Same as the same bullets but spun at different twist rates behave differently.

I know you were just throwing shade however.

Most guys don’t much like the results of using bullets like those in larger calibers though. Excessive meat loss.
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I'm just fishing, I may have caught some flack from the guy above me for being sad a 223 I bought had a 1:10 twist in the recent past...

I use softer, heavy for caliber bullets in, well, everything...
 
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Slimbo said:
Much easier to whine on the internet about how something you’ve never tried doesn’t work.
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It is also easier not mentioning failures, when you know you have been stunting... or at least may well be viewed to have been stunting.
 
It's kind of sad scrolling through some of the threads on here that are so divisive. I've been here many years, with a background of casual shooter, to shooter, then some hunting thrown in the mix, and I swear this forum is just a shadow of itself information wise.

It would be an interesting undertaking (and extremely time consuming) psychology wise just to point out all the cognitive biases controlling people and their thought processes. We're not doing the next generation of sport shooters or hunters reading these threads and posts any favors.

Also, 223 for everything except Chupacabra.;)
 
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