64 Anschutz with IBI Barrel

Leuchtkafer

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After getting my feet wet with the CZ factory barrel experiment and PRS build, I felt good to take on this project and start with a fresh blank to fit to a rifle. Not much difference in fitting the barrel vs the CZ, so I don't want to be repetitive with the machining work and we'll skip right to the good stuff. One thing to do when starting with a blank is to evaluate it before doing any work to it. I want to get a feel for the quality and consistency of the bore, and identify which direction the taper goes if it's been taper lapped, so I know which end will be the muzzle and which will be the chamber. If there's any inconsistency in the bore diameter at the muzzle end, some extra care would have to be taken to ensure a tight spot is accurately identified and marked to be cut and crowned there. This blank slugged well and I could put the crown anywhere I wanted. Straight 0.850" diameter finished at 24.5".



At the range, I noted a number of issues with RWS ammo. There was a ton of fail-to-fire, with Rifle Match being completely unusable. With the Target Rifle orange box, some rounds would be difficult to start into the chamber, others would start but jam up on the casing. Less chambering issues with Special Match and R-100, though it seems to me the spec on RWS ammo dimensions is a hair too big for this chamber. Results with all RWS were poor, to the point of me questioning everything I thought I knew and thinking about selling my lathe and giving up on it all. I tossed the targets in the trash. Then I gave SK and Lapua ammo a try, and had to laugh at God's sense of humour. I've never experienced it before that a rifle just wouldn't shoot any ammo from a particular brand. It's always been if the barrel is good, tuned, and the ammo is good, the results are good, no matter the brand. That's 3 barrels I've done with this chamber now and all of them don't do well with RWS.





I couldn't make any progress testing the tuner with the RWS ammo, so I set it to 2-60 and left it there for all the SK and Lapua groups. I don't see anything of concern here or unusual for rimfire. Results are in line with expectations and typical of the average ammo you get buying a random lot of whatever is available. POI between the ammo types is stable, the Long Range runs faster so a higher POI is expected. Some vertical in the groupings suggests to me that while I'm in the ballpark for the tuner setting, a few more range days to refine it are required. This barrel profile plus a Harrells tuner are practically made for each other, and the setting barrel to barrel should be close. If you ascribe to Positive Compensation, disregard and carry on with your pursuit.

There's never a free lunch in rimfire accuracy, you get out of it what you put into it. I'm satisfied with this result for a freshly machined barrel, in the cold, with random ammo, and a tuner that still needs testing work. People like to show off their best results, rather than showing everything they went through to get there. I'm not going to crop one of the 0.1's groups and boast about how awesome my rifle is, that would be dishonest. There's so much more to producing those tiny groups than slapping on a custom barrel and going shooting. Fitting a good barrel is only the beginning, and I look forward to seeing what I can achieve with this, in the warmer weather of course :ROFLMAO:
 
Yeah, hey cold weather is not your friend here. You might be able to do a little better with biathlon ammo. It is a few fps faster in any given brand for the most part.

In warm weather sk or lapua will act differently. Don't give up on them.

What chamber reamer?
Benchrest guys use eley #2 I'm pretty sure
 
Yeah, hey cold weather is not your friend here. You might be able to do a little better with biathlon ammo. It is a few fps faster in any given brand for the most part.

In warm weather sk or lapua will act differently. Don't give up on them.

What chamber reamer?
Benchrest guys use eley #2 I'm pretty sure
If biathlon ammo was available when I put my recent order in, I'd have picked up a brick or two. Slim pickings these days. I also got a brick of Midas +, saving that for the warmer weather along with the Eley I have.

The reamer is a Calfee II. Not ideal for anything other than a bench rifle, though I'm getting away with it in my PRS build by chamfering the chamber mouth so that rounds fed from a magazine go in.
 
After the silhouette match on the weekend, I stuck around to do some more ammo testing. It's been awhile since I tested anything in my 1416 and I'm running low on the ammo I've been using in the matches. Good chance to see if any of the recent bulk purchases would be suitable. Wind gusts were brutal, easily pushed one two animals over from the one they were trying to hit, often had to just set the rifle down and wait for a break in the wind to shoot. Wind wouldn't stop me from seeing how the rifles like the ammo, that's the vertical component and the wind wont affect that much. Getting an idea of lot quality will have to be a different day, as that shows up as random dispersion, something that will be largely overshadowed by the wind effects.

Confirmed that the SK Semi auto is shooting to a satisfactory standard for silhouette shooting in this IBI barrel. I cleaned the barrel after the match and shot 5 foulers off target. Groups are marked in the order shot starting at the bottom left. Perhaps this rifle needs more than 5 foulers to settle down, I will need more experience with this barrel to confirm that observation.



SK Rifle Match looks good on the vertical, horizontal is of course mainly from the wind. Hit on the middle bull belongs to the top left group. A couple odd fliers, could be reflective of lot quality but no clear assessment can be made until re-shooting on a calm day. I only got a brick of RM and have just a couple boxes remaining, I won't be able to use this for matches so I'll spend it tuner testing. Since I have a case of Semi-Auto, I'm pretty well set for a number of years regarding ammo for matches. I'm glad it found a use with a rifle that likes it.



I neglected to shoot RM in my 1416, not that it mattered given my low supply and the wind. What have we here... another good barrel that shoots Semi-Auto very poorly, it really doesn't like it. I marked a 10 on the bull where one round dropped below the target for impact. Please, nobody act like I only started shooting this year and that last week with my PRS build and this week with the 1416 are the only examples I have of this. Sure, I don't have everything neatly cataloged and available to "prove" anything to some character's satisfaction (if such a thing is even possible), however it all remains in the file bank of my mind and this is but another addition to a large volume. What I said remains true, the quality of the lot doesn't matter if the barrel doesn't like it. This is just simple truth that can stand on it's own, I don't need to defend it or "prove" it. Anyone can roll up their sleeves, do the work and verify it for themselves.



BBM remains the best option for the 1416. SK HV impacted high left compared to the semi-auto zero, hitting the top and bottom of the two targets here. I re-zeroed and shot the black circle bull for another group, then up in between the crosses. Not horrible like the SA, not good either. I'll pass on using it for matches while I still have a few bricks of BBM left that will last me a few more years (figure a brick per year if only used for matches and warmup on match day).



No tuner was used as they are not allowed in silhouette. I would at some point like to revisit pure accuracy testing using a tuner with both of these rifles, as my schedule allows. This is not a priority focus and I'll have to machine something up to use a tuner on the 1416. I have a tuner that fits the IBI barrel, so I'll get results with that much sooner than I can even start with the 1416 which would be towards the end of the season, maybe even pushed to next year. We'll see how it goes.
 
I've come to the unfortunate conclusion that this IBI barrel is a dud. See back in my first post where I said the target I shot with RWS was so bad I threw it in the trash, well it turns out that kind of performance is the norm and the Laupa target I showed was a freak occurrence that has been unrepeatable, not even close. Wondering what could be the cause I measured some slugs and have found that the grooves are out of round by 0.005", that's huge. Tell me how a bullet can maintain a balanced centre of gravity after being distorted by a bore like that. I'll be contacting IBI to see what resolution can be had.





 
I've come to the unfortunate conclusion that this IBI barrel is a dud. ... Wondering what could be the cause I measured some slugs and have found that the grooves are out of round by 0.005"
That's bad luck about getting a dud barrel. You've had more bad luck with aftermarket barrels than might be expected, including, if one hasn't been forgotten, a Lilja, a Shilen (the first aftermarket barrel that replaced the original barrel on this Anschutz MSR) and now this IBI, not to mention your first Lilja in 2016 which was ruined by an unsatisfactory gunsmith.

On another note, few if any barrels are perfectly concentric throughout the bore. If this IBI is out-of-round by 0.005" (five thousandths of an inch), it will be revealing to learn what IBI says as an "acceptable" limit for out of roundness for a .22LR bore.
 
I’ve run RWS Rifle Match in a similar Annie’s factory barrel with absolutely no problems.
 
I would expect a new IBI barrel to shoot better than that.
The CZ factory barrel I re-worked shoots better... Anywho, IBI didn't give me an answer to any sort of standard for bore concentricity, they just said "All our barrels are honed on a Sunnen 1600 barrel hone so the odds of something being out of round is
very small to none."

They want me to send the entire rifle in for testing and to make a determination about replacement of the barrel, so I'll have to get it shipped out and see what happens.
 
I've seen it many times where guys have replaced factory barrels with aftermarket ones. Do they shoot any better than the factory one? some do, some don't. luck of the draw.
 
I've decided to hold off on sending the rifle/barrel in. I slugged it again to double check and when I measured it, I was surprised to find all the groove pairs were within a few tenths of a thou of each other, ES of 0.0003", which is pretty decent. Curious as to how this could suddenly be, I measured the slugs more carefully and thoroughly. What I found is that at a certain degree of rotation, every single groove pair would give me that 0.005" higher reading, so it was just happenstance that I landed on this spot measuring previously. I'm not sure what explains this jump in the slug size at that certain point, but this does eliminate the concentricity of the bore as being defective.

I took my best shooting rifle out to the range the other week and tested out all the ammo I had purchased in the last year. If I didn't know any better, I'd have started thinking something was wrong with this rifle. I'd mentioned in my CZ 457 PRS build thread that I should have done this sanity check some time ago. Now I am looking at the ammo as being more of the problem. I've never experienced it before that out of such a wide selection like I have, even though they are random lots, that none of them shoot well. I don't really know what to think right now, it's back to the drawing board with yet another reminder of why serious accuracy benchrest shooting lost it's appeal to me.
 
I've decided to hold off on sending the rifle/barrel in. I slugged it again to double check and when I measured it, I was surprised to find all the groove pairs were within a few tenths of a thou of each other, ES of 0.0003", which is pretty decent. Curious as to how this could suddenly be, I measured the slugs more carefully and thoroughly. What I found is that at a certain degree of rotation, every single groove pair would give me that 0.005" higher reading, so it was just happenstance that I landed on this spot measuring previously. I'm not sure what explains this jump in the slug size at that certain point, but this does eliminate the concentricity of the bore as being defective.

I took my best shooting rifle out to the range the other week and tested out all the ammo I had purchased in the last year. If I didn't know any better, I'd have started thinking something was wrong with this rifle. I'd mentioned in my CZ 457 PRS build thread that I should have done this sanity check some time ago. Now I am looking at the ammo as being more of the problem. I've never experienced it before that out of such a wide selection like I have, even though they are random lots, that none of them shoot well. I don't really know what to think right now, it's back to the drawing board with yet another reminder of why serious accuracy benchrest shooting lost it's appeal to me.
What I have noticed, 22s are far more finicky in every aspect. Reamer, chambering job, barrel concentricity etc. Not doubting your skill, but I would check your chambering job.
I am not a gunsmith but have had multiple 22s over the years from different smiths. My modacam barrel shot the best by far with the widest assortment of ammo...
 
Your winter target is better. What did you change between now and then?

How many rounds since your last cleaning? How are you cleaning?
 
Don't forget, a rifle that's tuned for 50 yards isn't going to shoot well at 100 yards.

50-yard tune with drop at 100 yards.png

An old lot of Lapua Center-X I shot quite a while ago had an average of 1060 fps, SD of 7.68, and ES of 31 with a min of 1046 and a max of 1077. The graph shows what the 1046 fps shot and the 1077 fps shot would have for drop out to 100 yards when tuned for 50. With both hitting 0 at 50 yards the 1046 fps shot would drop -7.83" at 100 yards, and the 1077 fps shot would drop -7.42" out there. That's a difference of 0.41" at 100 yards for the ideal same-hole tune at 50 yards. Throw in natural variance and it will be even worse, and you'll have what looks to be rather poor shooting at 100 yards. The two distances require quite different swing rates for perfect positive compensation, and I could be wrong, but I don't think you can hit both rates with the same equipment.
 
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I took it out today for another test, started with SK Semi-Auto to explore tuner settings, went with the range of 0-50 to 0-80 for the "good" ammo. I forgot to write the bottom row on the Lapua Pistol King sheet is Centre X. Results like my winter target remain elusive, and RWS R-50 was brutal, a complete waste of the ammo that I know shoots better than that. RWS does not get along with this barrel at all. There's something about the RWS brass that likes to stick in this chamber too. My CZ 457 PRS rifle shoots the RWS well, but also suffers these extraction issues. It's not every round, most rounds actually extract fine, but there is the odd one that sticks and that causes me issues in matches.



What I have noticed, 22s are far more finicky in every aspect. Reamer, chambering job, barrel concentricity etc. Not doubting your skill, but I would check your chambering job.
I am not a gunsmith but have had multiple 22s over the years from different smiths. My modacam barrel shot the best by far with the widest assortment of ammo...

I've been thinking about the chamber, it's possible I didn't go deep enough with it, or to say another way, the engraving is too heavy and the case mouth is in the leade just slightly. I have no way to determine this. Looking with the borescope, the carbon ring is very close to where the rifling starts, but sense of distance when viewing with a borescope is not true to life. I am considering ordering a different reamer and rechambering it. The Calfee II reamer is meant for benchrest rifles, and I don't have a true benchrest rifle. It's causing me function issues in the intended use of the rifles.
Your winter target is better. What did you change between now and then?

How many rounds since your last cleaning? How are you cleaning?

I troubleshooted some ignition issues, have a thread on it. I made a new striker pin that compresses the spring a little more. Otherwise, nothing of note. Accuracy issues were present with the OEM striker pin and remain with the new one. I clean fastidiously, no more than 100 rounds before cleaning. I push a wet patch then attach and pull back a .223 brush, repeat 3 times, then dry patch. When the fouling is warm this cleans out the carbon ring completely most of the time.
Don't forget, a rifle that's tuned for 50 yards isn't going to shoot well at 100 yards.

View attachment 999862

An old lot of Lapua Center-X I shot quite a while ago had an average of 1060 fps, SD of 7.68, and ES of 31 with a min of 1046 and a max of 1077. The graph shows what the 1046 fps shot and the 1077 fps shot would have for drop out to 100 yards when tuned for 50. With both hitting 0 at 50 yards the 1046 fps shot would drop -7.83" at 100 yards, and the 1077 fps shot would drop -7.42" out there. That's a difference of 0.41" at 100 yards for the ideal same-hole tune at 50 yards. Throw in natural variance and it will be even worse, and you'll have what looks to be rather poor shooting at 100 yards. The two distances require quite different swing rates for perfect positive compensation, and I could be wrong, but I don't think you can hit both rates with the same equipment.
Not sure what this has to do with the issue at hand.
 
I took it out today for another test, started with SK Semi-Auto to explore tuner settings, went with the range of 0-50 to 0-80 for the "good" ammo. I forgot to write the bottom row on the Lapua Pistol King sheet is Centre X. Results like my winter target remain elusive, and RWS R-50 was brutal, a complete waste of the ammo that I know shoots better than that. RWS does not get along with this barrel at all. There's something about the RWS brass that likes to stick in this chamber too. My CZ 457 PRS rifle shoots the RWS well, but also suffers these extraction issues. It's not every round, most rounds actually extract fine, but there is the odd one that sticks and that causes me issues in matches.





I've been thinking about the chamber, it's possible I didn't go deep enough with it, or to say another way, the engraving is too heavy and the case mouth is in the leade just slightly. I have no way to determine this. Looking with the borescope, the carbon ring is very close to where the rifling starts, but sense of distance when viewing with a borescope is not true to life. I am considering ordering a different reamer and rechambering it. The Calfee II reamer is meant for benchrest rifles, and I don't have a true benchrest rifle. It's causing me function issues in the intended use of the rifles.


I troubleshooted some ignition issues, have a thread on it. I made a new striker pin that compresses the spring a little more. Otherwise, nothing of note. Accuracy issues were present with the OEM striker pin and remain with the new one. I clean fastidiously, no more than 100 rounds before cleaning. I push a wet patch then attach and pull back a .223 brush, repeat 3 times, then dry patch. When the fouling is warm this cleans out the carbon ring completely most of the time.

Not sure what this has to do with the issue at hand.
I would talk to JGS or manson and see what the most popular reamer is. Forgot the name of the reamer most people use. I do know a benchrest reamer is going to be specced for a specific rim thickness, and most likely push the bullet into the lands, so it engraves the bullet.
I do know the eley chambers usually work good w lapua and SK. I think RWS rims are thicker if memory serves me right
 
I could be wasting your time...



It will take 20 rounds or so after a cleaning to settle back into accuracy. Id try going a few more rounds before cleaning to see if that can help.

If you took your action out of the stock and changed the screw torque putting it back on. Even changing benches at the range. Small changes of little note can be the difference. Is the bench on dirt or concrete? Dirt dampers, concrete bounces. Everything is part of a harmonic balance.

In my mind the tuner is just another variable to confuse you till you get all other vibrations under control.

Have you tried slight downward pressure, in one inch incraments, on the length of your stock?
 
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