Comparison of some long range cartridges

todbartell

todbartell

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Worked on this last night for my own curiousity, it snowballed into something a bit bigger so I thought I would share

  • 22inch barrel used for all cartridges
  • Charge weight is the average of the top six performing powders as per Quickload (60k psi for all except 223 which was 55k psi)
  • MV = muzzle velocity (average of the top six powders as per Quickload
  • 1000y V = 1000 yard velocity (2500' elevation 10c, 50% humidity)
  • 1350 fps retained velocity carried to____ yards (supersonic flight)
  • recoil energy in 10lb rifle/scope total weight
  • 1000 ft lbs impact energy carried to ____ yards
  • wind deflection at 1000 yards per MPH crosswind (in MOA)
  • Rounds per pound of powder
  • Cost per round factoring in Lapua brass (Hornady in ARC/Grendel) being handloaded 10 times, plus powder / primer / Hornady ELDm bullet)
  • Estimated barrel life using the 6BR.com useful barrel life calculator, more info on that found here

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On a Hornady podcast they were talking about how many barrels they go through to make a reloading manual. They talked about barrel life. Some are extremely short. 26Nosler was like 660rounds. How you shoot makes a big difference as does type of powder.
The 25Creed should be an amazing cartridge if it catches on. Need non Hornady buy in for ammo and it might have a chance.
 
It appears that your cost per round doesn't include the cost of the barrel divided by the number of rounds expected from the life of the barrel.

It would be interesting to add that cost to the 'cost per round' figure (or make a second 'cost per round including barrel wear').

Overall though, I can't find fault with any of your numbers. They all looks quite accurate.
 
.Have wondered why Shooters Calculator always shows sound barrier at ~ 1120 ish

good info Todd, the happy place seems near 2700 fps for barrel life
 
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That's some great work and good info thanks for the chart, barrel life I presume is average and very dependant on how fast and hard they are run, I know I'm an old fud and am very concious heating up the barrel, needless to say I do not shoot matches,
 
The problem w a chart like that is there are so many variations within a single cartridge. IMO 165-178gr is a crap choice for 308 win. The 155gr VLD start out faster and still have very high BC so they carry further. I've also run 208 AMAX in the 308 and while they start out slower, their much higher BC allows them to go further and retain velocity.

boxhitch said:
the happy place seems near 2700 fps for barrel life
Click to expand...
Bore diameter and the amount of powder being shoved down the bore are much more important to barrel life than velocity.
 
I Dont Care About You said:
The problem w a chart like that is there are so many variations within a single cartridge. IMO 165-178gr is a crap choice for 308 win. The 155gr VLD start out faster and still have very high BC so they carry further. I've also run 208 AMAX in the 308 and while they start out slower, their much higher BC allows them to go further and retain velocity.

I Dont Care About You said:
Supersonic is more like 1150.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

speed of sound is around 1150, but about 200 fps above speed of sound is where the bullet is above the transonic zone and drag is more predictable.
I Dont Care About You said:
I Dont Care About You said:
The problem w a chart like that is there are so many variations within a single cartridge. IMO 165-178gr is a crap choice for 308 win. The 155gr VLD start out faster and still have very high BC so they carry further. I've also run 208 AMAX in the 308 and while they start out slower, their much higher BC allows them to go further and retain velocity.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

155 Berger VLD would be 2742 fps using the same QL prediction as I did for the 178 ELDm

Litz G7 is .238

1000y velocity : 1265 fps (178 eldm is 1288)
1350 fps retained to 930 yards (178 eldm is 940)
1000 ft lbs retained to 660 yards (178 eldm is 720)
1000y Wind deflection per mph crosswind is 0.9moa (178 eldm is 0.8)

&

208 ELDm would be 2351 fps, Litz g7 .338

1000y velocity : 1346 fps (178 eldm is 1288)
1350 fps retained to 990 yards (178 eldm is 940)
1000 ft lbs retained to 850 yards (178 eldm is 720)
1000y Wind deflection per mph crosswind is 0.7moa (178 eldm is 0.8)
 
todbartell said:
155 Berger VLD would be 2742 fps using the same QL prediction as I did for the 178 ELDm

Litz G7 is .238

1000y velocity : 1265 fps (178 eldm is 1288)
1350 fps retained to 930 yards (178 eldm is 940)
1000 ft lbs retained to 660 yards (178 eldm is 720)
1000y Wind deflection per mph crosswind is 0.9moa (178 eldm is 0.8)

&

208 ELDm would be 2351 fps, Litz g7 .338

1000y velocity : 1346 fps (178 eldm is 1288)
1350 fps retained to 990 yards (178 eldm is 940)
1000 ft lbs retained to 850 yards (178 eldm is 720)
1000y Wind deflection per mph crosswind is 0.7moa (178 eldm is 0.8)
Click to expand...
I have no idea how you are generating those velocities? I tried the 178gr AMAX at 2697 fps in a 25" bbl and for me the 155 Scenar and 208 AMAX both outperformed the mid weight 178gr projectile by significant margins.

My loads run:

155 Scenar - 3047 fps in a 25" barrel
1000yd vely - 1494 fps (178gr AMAX - 1290)
1350 fps - 1130 yd (178gr AMAX - 935) FWIW this load crosses the 1150 fps sonic barrier at around 1400 yds.
1000 ftlb - 825 yd (178gr AMAX - 725)

208 AMAX - 2482 fps in a 25" barrel
- 2455 fps in a 20" barrel
25" bbl data
1000yd vely - 1420 fps (178gr AMAX - 1290)
1350 fps - 1085 yds (178gr AMAX - 935) This load crosses the 1150 fps sonic barrier at around 1425 yds.
1000 ftlb - 935 yds (178gr AMAX - 725)

There is a HUGE difference between make believe and real life. Maybe less computer and more shooting? 🤷‍♂️

I just realized that I had calculated all the above data at 10C. Change that to a nice summer day at 25C and you can add an extra hundred yds to the distance the bullets hit 1150 fps. I'd say 1500+ yds out of a 308 Win is pretty respectable.
 
I Dont Care About You said:
I have no idea how you are generating those velocities?

My loads run:

208 AMAX - 2482 fps in a 25" barrel
- 2455 fps in a 20" barrel


There is a HUGE difference between make believe and real life. Maybe less computer and more shooting? 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...

Maybe your loads are well above SAAMI psi, Only losing 27 fps for 5" of barrel length is pretty impressive btw
 
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