changing 30-06 over to 35 whelen???
- Thread starter gregc
- Start date
This is old data. It came out in one loading manual (I forget which) and it stated the .338-06 was an anomoly and should not outperform the 35 Whelen but it does in velocity, energy, and trajectory.
The main anomaly is that the .338-06 offers superior ballistic performance (higher velocity, flatter trajectory, better energy retention) and a wider variety of bullet options, while the .35 Whelen benefits from the availability of factory ammunition and can be loaded with cheaper pistol and .35 Rem bullets for plinking. In short, the .338-06 is a better performer for hunting, but the .35 Whelen is more accessible for those who don't handload.
.338-06
The main anomaly is that the .338-06 offers superior ballistic performance (higher velocity, flatter trajectory, better energy retention) and a wider variety of bullet options, while the .35 Whelen benefits from the availability of factory ammunition and can be loaded with cheaper pistol and .35 Rem bullets for plinking. In short, the .338-06 is a better performer for hunting, but the .35 Whelen is more accessible for those who don't handload.
.338-06
- Anomaly: Superior ballistics for its class. It was designed to leverage the existing .30-06 case to achieve performance exceeding the .35 Whelen, which it generally does in velocity, energy, and trajectory.
- Performance: Outperforms the .35 Whelen in velocity, flat shooting, and energy at all ranges. The .338" bullet diameter offers more options for high-ballistic-coefficient bullets.
- Location
- Southern Vancouver Island
T'would be along the lines of dis one I reckon. Cast 'er to 22 BHN instead of 12-15 BHN and that would get the weight down closer to 400 gr.
https://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=43-425M
This boolit is meant for single shot use in Marlin Micro-Grove rifles. Ye could handily dump bison with well placed shots at 80+ yds at velocities
in the 13 to 1500 fps range.
New Camper
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Lurking in the woods near SFRC.
7mm Remington Express has entered the chat, and wants to weigh in on long distance capability... 
What an odd thread... went from a guy wanting to rebarrel one of his .30-1906 Government rifles for a larger caliber and it turns into a debate without the 6.5mm-250-3000 Newton-Savage Ackley Improved man bun guys chiming in.
Just recommend a smithy to the OP, so he can even choose a useless .50-06 wall hanger to spend his money on... 3months and 4 pages....
What an odd thread... went from a guy wanting to rebarrel one of his .30-1906 Government rifles for a larger caliber and it turns into a debate without the 6.5mm-250-3000 Newton-Savage Ackley Improved man bun guys chiming in.Just recommend a smithy to the OP, so he can even choose a useless .50-06 wall hanger to spend his money on... 3months and 4 pages....
7mm Remington Express has entered the chat, and wants to weigh in on long distance capability...
Just recommend a smithy to the OP, so he can even choose a useless .50-06 wall hanger to spend his money on... 3months and 4 pages....
Oh my……
Thanks for my coffee mourn’in chuckle.
New Camper
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Lurking in the woods near SFRC.
that was more the effect I was going after, rather than a serious castigation. I'm sure some people stuck their toes under my feet and had a breakdown in their sense of humour.Oh my……
Thanks for my coffee mourn’in chuckle.
Blows me away how some can't, or won't t read a simple reloading manual. Let us all know which of the below copied text you disagree with.
But here are some expected, reasoned, results from a couple of 24″ rifles chambered in .338-06 and .35 Whelen loaded to the same approximate PSI. As a wildcat. the .338-06, like so many other “cats”, was not limited by SAAMI, and early results were likely well beyond 52,000 cup. Since then, A-SQUARE legitimised the cartridge at SAAMI at about 65,000 psi, according to one source. Of course, that’s above and beyond that for the Whelen at 52,000 cup (about 62,000 psi).
The .338-06 A-SQUARE -data from the Nosler #6 Reloading Guide
Bullet: 250gr Nosler Partition
Barrel length = 24″
SD = .313
BC = .473
MV= 2424 fps/3261 ft-lbs/92 MTE 100= 2250 fps/2809 ft-lbs/79 MTE 200= 2082 fps/2407 ft-lbs/68
MTE 300= 1923 fps/2052 ft-lbs/58
MTE 375= 1808 fps/1815 ft-lbs/51 MTE
*Now that’s slightly better than its parent case, the .30-06, but not by a whole lot, and only because of the larger bore and heavier bullet — which was intended by its creators. But in my thinking, it’s NOT deserving of all the HOOPLA created in the press when it was introduced! One of the authors shot a grizzly and it worked! Big deal… the .30-06 can do that! Oh… but it was shot with a 210gr Partition! That matters? Nosler’s manual #6 shows up to 2690 fps from a 24″ barrel for their 210gr Partition/3374 ft-lbs. For the 225gr in .358″, they show a high of 2805 fps/3930 ft-lbs in a 24″, .35 Whelen test barrel. I’ve shut matters down at 375 yards for the .338-06 because past that the 250 Nosler will not likely give any expansion.
The .35 Whelen
Bullet: 250gr Nosler Partition
Barrel length = 24″
SD = .279
BC = .446
MV= 2650 fps/3898 ft-lbs/110 MTE 100= 2456 fps/3347 ft-lbs/106
MTE 200= 2270 fps/2860 ft-lbs/ MTE 300= 2092 fps/2429 ft-lbs/ 68 MTE/optimum game weight of 1700 lbs
MTE 400= 1923 fps/2052 ft-lbs/ 58 MTE/optimum game weight of 1450 lbs (Alaska-Yukon moose)
MTE 475= 1801 fps/1801 ft-lbs/ 51 MTE/ optimum game weight of 1275lbs
35W - The best weight bullets for big game are 225s and 250s. 225s at 2700 to 2800 fps and 250s at 2500 to 2700 fps. There are both lighter bullets and heavier – please check reloading manuals.
Please advise "your" numbers for the 338/06 pumping 225 gr. bullets and advise your liad recommends for hitting 2800 fps MV and at what yardage the ASquare falls below 1800. The 35W using 250gr is already indicated.
Short story? You're incorrect on almost all counts. Not saying there's anything wrong with the 338/06. Just that it doesn't run with the Whelen at any yardage using 225s, and 250s really aren't worth discussing. The 338 Federal might be a more favorable match up.
I stopped loading and no longer have any loading manuals... but the ones I had (Hornady, Speer, Nosler, Sierra, and a couple of otheres) is where I got my information about the 338-06 being an anomoly... My chronograph confirmed my velocities, 225 Hornady at 2800 f/s. Hornadys trajectory and energy data was referenced. I did not use 250 grain bullets. One of the manuals did have specific reference to the 338-06 being an anomoly. I believe the Nosler velocities listed were far below all others.
I can see how most people would use a 250 grain in a 35 Whelen, as I believe most would use a lighter bullet in a 338-06.
I also realize many prefer the advantage of using pistol bullets loaded for grouse.
I can see how most people would use a 250 grain in a 35 Whelen, as I believe most would use a lighter bullet in a 338-06.
I also realize many prefer the advantage of using pistol bullets loaded for grouse.
I bought the Whelen to shoot 225s primarily and it flat out does that better than the 338/06 in either weight. You stated the AS carried better velocity and energy at all ranges than the 35W did. This just flat out is untrue and I suspect you know very little about the 35W when all is said and done and looked only at the 338 bullet selection and BCs to form your opinion without having practical knowledge about one side of the discussion. 338/06 does "not" produce higher velocities or energy at "any" range than the 35W and with 250gr bullets, if one is so inclined, its not even a worthwhile comparison. Out to 275 - 280 yards the 35W runs right with the 338wm in actuality and one day I'd love to see the true percentages of game killed beyond those ranges with any and all cartridges.
338/06 is also destined to be a fairly small part of firearms history and in all likelihood won't hit the 100 year mark like the Whelen has outside of a small number of specialty handloaders and there's reasons for that. Specialty cartridges that do not outperform their closest likely comparators in the market have relatively limited shelf lives outside of small niche circles.
(Hornady, Speer, Nosler, Sierra, and a couple of others) is where I got my information about the 338-06 being an anomoly... My chronograph confirmed my velocities, 225 Hornady at 2800 f/s. Hornadys trajectory and energy data was referenced and the data for 35 Whelen was compared. The .338-06 came out on top. One of the manuals did have specific reference to the 338-06 being an anomoly, I did not make that up. I have never owned a .35 Whelen. I only had the 338-06 for a year or so. So if you have loading manuals from that era, please check them out for the data I quoted. I did not make this up.
I fully agree the .338-06 has already become a small part of history, mostly due to almost non existent factory rifle choices and a lack of quality brass and ammunition and a bit of the 270 Winchester versus the .280 Remington syndrome. The latter coming in later and behind an established round.
If you're hitting 2800 fps with 225s I might suggest you're running near a max load but either way it's prime bullet appears to be the 210s. 225s won't give you near the energy the Whelen will at "all" yardage as some have stated earlier. Stands to reason with the larger frontal diameters that expansion will be better on impact as well.
I'm not arguing BCs here because the 338s obviously have that cornered but it's interesting that the 358s will run right with them drop wise over same yardage. and carry more energy. All I care about is what happens when the bullet gets there and the energy carried upon in arrival. Some suggest 250 gr are optional in the Whelen but my testing makes me disagree. 225s are it for the Whelen but nice to have the 250s if desired. They do not perform as well in the AS dumping a lot of energy, which is not 35W capable at any yardage to start, quickly beyond 250 yds 225s in the Whelen are easily loaded beyond 2800 fps without pushing boundaries and 250s can be pushed to 2650+ which is very close to 338wm velocities. Bigger bullets at same or higher velicities = ?
Careful with early wildcat specs as well. Early info was prior to SAAMI and info likely well beyond 52 000 cup. It was legitimized at 65,000 psi with the Whelen being a bit lower at 62 000.
Bonus for me is out of 2x 270, 2x 7rm, a 300 wm + the Whelen, the Whelen is the most accurate. And from a much lower $$ rifle. It was purchased for elk and moose hunting in Alberta grizz country, no shortage of those around, and with 225 and 250 options I'm confident when carrying it that I've got lots of rifle if things go sideways.
Last edited:
I have wanted a 35 Whelen for years, and if I didn’t already have a 338-06, I’d build one. Just to muddy the waters a bit more about ballistics and ammunition availability, I dug out a couple of boxes. They’re might not be cataloged currently, but it’s been out there.
Attachments
270 AB - don’t start comparing the 35W with the 338 Win Mag as it’s FALLS SHORT at all ranges ! And really falls short after 300 yards
338 Nosler 250 AB .575 BC
35 Nosler 250 AB .446 BC
35W is 150-200 fps SLOWER ! Then. 338 WM.
338 Nosler 250 AB .575 BC
35 Nosler 250 AB .446 BC
35W is 150-200 fps SLOWER ! Then. 338 WM.
And then 358 Norma Mag. And the. 358 STA. There's always a bigger stick. - dan270 AB - don’t start comparing the 35W with the 338 Win Mag as it’s FALLS SHORT at all ranges ! And really falls short after 300 yards
338 Nosler 250 AB .575 BC
35 Nosler 250 AB .446 BC
35W is 150-200 fps SLOWER ! Then. 338 WM.
tactical lever
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Fox Creek, Alberta
270AB, and the other .35 Whelen aficionados are correct. The .338 A-Square doesn't keep up with it. It doesn't better it, and doesn't even come close to matching it at regular ranges. You can cherry pick a super low drag bullet for the .338, and stick the .35 with a regular old Partition, and at 400 yards match the Whelen (maybe), but the .35 is still dropping several inches less. Even stacking the deck and claiming the A-Square is better at 450+ yards conveniently overlooks that at 95% of hunting range, the Whelen is better.
Just plugging one source max loads in with 250 gr. Partitions for each, the Whelen has the same velocity (and energy naturally) at 400 yards, as the A-Square musters at 300 yards. And at the muzzle, if one cares about FPE, the couple hundred extra FPS translates into a bit over 600 more foot/pounds.
Seems the A-Square is suited to bullets on the lighter end of the spectrum, while the .35 mids and heavyish weights are better suited for the velocity of the Whelen. So the argument for better selection of bullets doesn't really sway me much.
Just plugging one source max loads in with 250 gr. Partitions for each, the Whelen has the same velocity (and energy naturally) at 400 yards, as the A-Square musters at 300 yards. And at the muzzle, if one cares about FPE, the couple hundred extra FPS translates into a bit over 600 more foot/pounds.
Seems the A-Square is suited to bullets on the lighter end of the spectrum, while the .35 mids and heavyish weights are better suited for the velocity of the Whelen. So the argument for better selection of bullets doesn't really sway me much.
All? As I said earlier it'll run with the .338 to 275 yds shooting 225s, then of course it falls away, but, the A Square won't come close to either at any distance or any aspect shoiting the sane bullet. Also not sure why 250s keep coming up as the most viable option RJ. 225s are the Whelens sweetspot imo. Just happens to be 250 capable but isn't my bullet of choice. 210s are the A Squares. Nothing much to prove using 250s in the A Square really.270 AB - don’t start comparing the 35W with the 338 Win Mag as it’s FALLS SHORT at all ranges ! And really falls short after 300 yards
338 Nosler 250 AB .575 BC
35 Nosler 250 AB .446 BC
35W is 150-200 fps SLOWER ! Then. 338 WM.
Do t recall this being a 338wm vs 35W discussion but have at er if you must.
