Double Rifle with a Single Trigger Question

[thymallus arcticus]

I am in the process of trying to figure out if my gun nut whims will be satisfied with a double rifle. Given the cost of these things, one has to take a moment and think a little harder about that question before buying. In my double rifle shopping and readings, you get about a million opinions on the various configurations (i.e., O/U vs SxS; single trigger vs double trigger). I am aware that the most traditional version of a double rifle is the double trigger SxS, which I would probably default too if I had my choice, but like anything there is always balanced between what you think you want and price/availability. In my shopping efforts, I have found that O/U rifles are the cheaper than SxS rifles and often the O/U rifles are very well appointed if you look at versions of O/U rifles with comparable pricing to SxS rifles, and I have also found that modern SxS like Rizzini or F.A.I.R often (not always) will come with a single trigger, which made me wonder the arguments for a double trigger may have gone the way of the dodo bird...and formed the impetus for this post.

The age old argument is that the double trigger provides two rifles in one should anything fail and the second shot (if something failed with one barrel/mechanism) is just a trigger pull away. This makes a degree of sense, but the logic starts coming apart for me when you look the reliability of O/U shotguns (typically with single trigger) which people regularly put thousands of rounds through without a hiccup and most O/U mechanisms have they ability to switch the trigger over to the second barrel relatively quickly (not double trigger quick but maybe bolt action reloading fast - speculation here). In consideration of my use case (not going Africa, not going on years long safaris through the hinterlands, but generally desiring a reliable rifle that will function for a lifetime of recreational use), my question is there any practical validity for choosing a double trigger over a single trigger for the sake of reliability?

 

[Locked out]

If you do decide to go SxS w/ double trigger ( such as classic) ALWAYS start with the rear trigger and then reach forward for the second . Recoil on heavy cal. can cause unwanted tapping of the second trigger while the gun is still lifting from the first shot.
Have you also considered combo’s ? I have an O/U 12g X 6.5 Sw combo that is such a sweet unit to pack . I throw a 12g X .410 adapter in my pocket for grouse .

 

[iron cat]

If you do decide to go SxS w/ double trigger ( such as classic) ALWAYS start with the rear trigger and then reach forward for the second . Recoil on heavy cal. can cause unwanted tapping of the second trigger while the gun is still lifting from the first shot.

This is what I do even with light recoiling guns like the 28 gauge, found this out when shooting in the rain one day and my trigger finger slipped off the front trigger on recoil and set off the second ( back trigger) barrel on my 28 SxS!
I was wearing gloves, which because very slippery!
Cat

 

[thymallus arcticus]

I appreciate the utility of the rifle/shotgun combination, but I find they just don't feel as nice or look as nice (IMHO) as a double rifle or single rifle. It's something out the big, minimally tapered shotgun barrel that just doesn't appeal to me.

I think the points from both Cat and Locked out about the importance of the correct trigger first might provide a reason in favour of the single trigger. I am sure like anything else, practice is key but if you aren't handling double trigger guns regularly it might be wiser to go with the familiar (I feel like I have read the same thing about the backward Brno safeties...)

 

[209jones]

I'd disagree with the rear trigger first if the front one happens to be a set trigger, liable to get a nasty surprise doing that, there are a few makers that do have that feature, depending on cartridge choices. I have forgotten about that a couple of times on mine, set the frt one taking my finger off the rear, and the frt one when set, is a bit scary..
Been using SST SXS shotguns for 14-15 yrs now, no big deal, haven't had any issues other than the odd time when I managed to push the selector to a somewhat neutral position from sitting in the blind and playing with it. SST has been around for over 100 yrs, not like it is something new, they have a proven track record.
One thing to check on O/U's, is what the barrels are soldered with, some cannot be re regulated if neccessary, as the type of solder they use doesn't melt all that easily, to the point that some of the people who can do the job, won't.

And remember that a Blaser SXS operates opposite to all the others, it is not cocked when closed, have to actuate the safety to #### it, same on a K95 or my Merkel singleshot. Whereas a Krieghoff is cocked when closed, safety is off, can just set it to safe, or can fully decock it with the safety, then recock it with the same action as you would with a Blaser, as an example. Others are all cocked on closed.

Looked at the FAIR Iside 10 yrs or so ago, there's better around, I wouldn't want to shoot one in 30R or 9.3x74, too light.

 

[thymallus arcticus]

I am not familiar with double barrelled guns having set triggers, but my experience is limited to shotguns. I do have a bolt action Brno and a M-S both with double set triggers that are light enough that I only ever set the trigger (pulling the rear to set the front) when the sights are on target.

I think I would find the not cocked when the action is closed thing irritating (good to know about though). Good response on the experience with single triggers on O/U; that echoes my experience/observations. It strikes me that the single trigger on the FAIR Iside (found on all models except the "Vintage") would be just fine for my purposes. I will admit I was hoping on the 9.3x74R, but wood butt plate would be a bit sharp compared to the typical 1 inch pad on a regular small bore bolt action.

 

[iron cat]

Looked at the FAIR Iside 10 yrs or so ago, there's better around, I wouldn't want to shoot one in 30R or 9.3x74, too light.

In have shot the Iside with 9.3X74 barrels on it it was well regulated as per Italian law, and although it is light for a cartridge of that size, it handles and shoots well. The danged thing is after all, a hunting rifle not a target gun for pinking.
If you think that is hard recoiling , I would steer clear of a true heavy double rifle like a 470NE , etc.
My son's 12x12/375 drilling is not much lighter recoiling than the 9.3X74R Iside, in fact if at all.
One can always get anther set of barrels for the Iside, they are easily ordered and changed.
As far as set triggers on shotguns go, my 16X16/ 9.3x72R drilling has a set trigger on the front for the rifle barrel, never worried about set it by accident .
Cat

 

[conor_90]

My son's 12x12/375 drilling is not much lighter recoiling than the 9.3X74R Iside, in fact if at all.

Sounds awful, I can take it off his hands if it's all too much.

 

[209jones]

I realize many folk like a lighter gun, but, most of the good bigbore doubles start in the 10lb range, The Iside is built on the 20ga frame, which is bearable in most chamberings, but it's not for everyone. Guess it depends on what a person wants and is willing to put up with, in the Iside, I'd be more inclined to the 7x57 or 7x65r as being more comfortable for some practice shooting, 30R is more inline with a 30-06AI, not far off from the 300H&H, H&H can be matched in a falling block. The 9.3, I would guess, would be comparable to the 450-400 or a 404 with 300gr ish bullets. A 375 in what doubles I've shot is OK, as they weren't 7-8 lb guns, I've shot 458win, 470's and 500's too. Chapuis chambers one model in 30-30Win, that'd be a fun gun, cheap to shoot, little more loot than an Iside, probably 2K, but, certainly better finished too.

 

[neev]

When I was on the fence about my first double it was explained to me there’s double rifles and then there’s double barrelled rifles. The difference being the 1 vs 2 triggers and having 2 mechanisms vs one. The double rifle will always cost more, it’s as described, two guns in one. That being said, I’d say buy what you like and the best you can afford without breaking the bank.

 

[thymallus arcticus]

When I was on the fence about my first double it was explained to me there’s double rifles and then there’s double barrelled rifles. The difference being the 1 vs 2 triggers and having 2 mechanisms vs one. The double rifle will always cost more, it’s as described, two guns in one. That being said, I’d say buy what you like and the best you can afford without breaking the bank.

This is good commentary. However, I still wonder about value (by which the increased cost is assessed) of the two guns in one (a double rifle) given that we are well over a century (maybe 2 - I am weak on my firearm history pre-smokeless powder) past the conditions in which the "double rifle" was conceptualized. I would guess (and that's all it is, a guess) that a bolt action is just about always the rifle of choice in ever corner of the world's hunting fields and there is only "one rifle" in a bolt action.

In a moment of introspection inspired by Neev's post, if a double barrelled rifle is acceptable to me, why would I even bother with a double barrelled rifle (single trigger) and just go with a straight pull bolt or lever... if the fast follow-up is the only real benefit. Perhaps I truly do I need a double trigger to justify lugging around a whole second tube and dealing with fussiness of regulation.

Good thoughts.

 

[neev]

In my opinion, not that it’s right and I’ll likely get some flak but I don't believe there are many situations where a double rifle is required. Again, my opinion which should not carry any weight. A thought is if you’re wanting 1 gun or one high quality piece, you can’t go wrong with a Blaser R8, everything from 22LR to 3 rounds of 500 Jeffrey. A prime example I can preach is that I was charged by a bull moose while hunting a few years ago from 40 yards and got 4 shots off until it dropped about 3 yards from my feet. They’re fast, extremely accurate, reliable and are available in all the major calibers.

Mind you, I’ve used my small calibre double chambered 8x57JRS on deer and black bear here in Northern Ontario and it’s an experience. Would a bolt or a single shot have worked, absolutely, I’d argue they would work better. However, I can see where large doubles would be practical for guides or dangerous game hunts in Africa. Would a bolt gun work in those situations, probably but I'm speculating as I'm not a guide and ive yet to do a buffalo hunt. Would my large double rifle have worked on the charging moose, absolutely.

Hunting with my double changes the way I hunt deer when I use it, I stay in the hardwoods over the fields. It’s a Chapuis and can be regulated which is nice but I wouldn’t feel right taking a shot at a running deer at 300 yards.

Experiences and desires are unique and to each their own but would I recommend a double? Absolutely… 8 days a week a would. Would I choose an R8 over a double if I only planned on having one of the two, I’d pick an R8 hands down.

 

[thymallus arcticus]

All good points. At this stage, my gun buying and selling is completely for my own fun and experience (trying new or different things) and the choices deal a lot more with my guess at what I think is fun, my esthetic preferences, and biases. The point regarding how an R8 can pretty well replace a full battery, if you wanted to, is pretty cool but not for me (just not my flavour...yet).

Well, I am convinced with the "8 days a week" endorsement (you can tell I was already wanting this). I think I have to try a double rifle as long as the funds hold out and I am believe the single trigger double will not suffice in my case, due to tenuous rationale that there is actually something possibly unique to a double rifle (when compared to a bolt gun or a semi) that is not presented in a double barrelled rifle (single trigger). However, we will still see what the wallet has to say about that.

 

[neev]

Also something to consider which is a personal preference is having ejectors or extractors. I personally prefer ejectors, they’re mechanical and fun.

Hopefully this encourages you to get into the double game.

Merkel 140AE in 470 Nitro Express
Chapuis Armes X4 high grade in 8x57jrs

 

[257hunter]

In his book John Taylor discusses single vs double triggers on rifles. His biggest concern didn’t seem to be reliability at all. He was against mixing the two in a battery of rifles (for familiarity’s sake) and noted that an interrupted emergency reload could leave you trying to fire an empty chamber. Opening the gun resets the mechanism and if you decide you need to close it and fire the second rather than finishing the reload the active side will be empty. I don’t know how much of a concern that would be for most hunters though.

 

[iron cat]

In his book John Taylor discusses single vs double triggers on rifles. His biggest concern didn’t seem to be reliability at all. He was against mixing the two in a battery of rifles (for familiarity’s sake) and noted that an interrupted emergency reload could leave you trying to fire an empty chamber. Opening the gun resets the mechanism and if you decide you need to close it and fire the second rather than finishing the reload the active side will be empty. I don’t know how much of a concern that would be for most hunters though.

The big issue I have with doubles and single triggers is not only that , but if you break a firing pin or another internal piece on the first barrel, with a reboundng trigger mechanism it is a PIA to load and reset the gun for the second barrel, which is exactly what happened to me on an O/U 6.5X55.
Cat

https://imgur.com/MuqxrD7

 

[thymallus arcticus]

That Merkel and Chapius are pretty swanky; that Chapius must be tiny in the hands. Your pictures are indeed inspiration to get into the double game. Still shopping for one that fits the budget and falls between those two in caliber. I am often have tempted to cheap out and go with Valmet/Brno style O/U with double triggers but the open channel between the barrels, which is not my favourite look but finding just the right SxS testing my patience.

I could see John Taylors point regarding familiarity, but it would be something that could be address through practice and a bit of planning (i.e., concentrating on one rifle as the primary).

I know you shoot a bunch, Cat, but how often have you had a firing pin break? My O/U shotgun just keeps running regardless off how many cases shells I put through it. Is breakage more likely when an O/U action is used on rifles?

 

[iron cat]

I broke that one in the FAIR Safari 500, one on an older Valmet 7x57/12 gauge , one on a Tikka 308, a couple of older SxS 12's and a couple of model 12 pumps.
The FAIR was the only new gun however.
Oh, and a buddy broke one on his drilling. .
The problem with breaking a firing pin, etc is that you don't realize it until the next time you try to use the gun or a particular barrel!
Cat

 

[thymallus arcticus]

Wow, that is far more breakages than I would have guess based on mine and my friend's experiences with modern over/under shotguns. That is useful info on the topic of reliability.

 

[iron cat]

Wow, that is far more breakages than I would have guess based on mine and my friend's experiences with modern over/under shotguns. That is useful info on the topic of reliability.

To put things in perspective, that would be over the course of about 50 years when I realized my M12 pin was broken.
The neat thing about the Model 12 is that the break behind a shoukd that thd pin has , so they will still operate but in a chain reaction sort of way. The broken pin will not fall out of the breach block.
Makes for pretty slow lock time though!
Cat