Winchester primer no 1

[Evanguy]

What is a Winchester no 1 primer?

I have some 25-25 ammo I plan to reload and the old box says

"In reloading these cartridges the only primer that can be used is the Winchester primer No. 1"

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[Suther]

I can't help you with your question but that's a hilarious looking cartridge so thanks for sharing lol

 

[Cocked&Locked]

Very interesting. I had never heard of a Winchester #1 primer.

 

[bearhunter]

Winchester primer sizes chart.

Here is some Basic Primer and Bullet info relating to the WRA Co headstamps. Hopefully this can help you narrow down the age search of your early Winchester Cartridges.
PRIMERS

NOTE: A "W" or "underlined W" etc on a primer denotes the primer is for smokeless powder.​

Primer Color	Primer Size	Primer Diameter (inches)	Year Introduced and Years Used	Primary Gun Types
Brass	No 1	.175	1875-1885	.38, .44, Marlin and Bullard rifles
Brass	No 1 1/2	.175	1878-1885	Small & Medium Handguns
Brass	No 2	.210	1875-1885	Lg Handguns & Shotshells
Brass	No 2 1/2	.210	1879-1885	Medium to Large Rifle Calibers
Copper	No 1	.175	1885-1894	.38, .44, Marlin and Bullard rifles
Copper	No 1 1/2	.175	1885-1894	Small & Medium Handguns
Copper	No 2	.210	1885-1920	Lg Handguns & Shotshells
Copper	No 2 1/2	.210	1885-1894	Medium to Large Rifle Calibers
Brass with W on primer	No 2 1/2W	.210	1894-1920	Medium to Large Rifles
Brass with W on primer	No 3W	.210	1894-1923	Handguns & Shotshells
Copper with W on Primer	No 1 W	.175	1894-1923	.38, .44, Marlin and Bullard rifles
Copper with W on Primer	No 1 1/2 W	.175	1894-1923	Small & Medium Handguns
Protected Primer (primer with a Brass ring around primer)	No 5 W	.210	1895-1932	No 1 1/2W primer inside ring
Protected Primer (primer with a Brass ring around primer)	No 5 1/2 W	.237	1904-1932	No 2 1/2W primer inside ring
Copper	No 4W	.177	1895	Shotshells
Copper	No 4	.177	1896	Shotshells
Copper	No 4 1/2	.227	1903-9132	Shotshells
Copper	New No 4	.227	1904-1932	Shotshells
Copper	No 6	.175	1896-1932	Shotshells
Copper	No 209	.240	1933-	Shotshells
New Brass (Non Fulminate Primers) with W	No 1NF	.175	1908-1923	-
New Brass (Non Fulminate Primers)	No 1NF	.175	1923-	Replaces No 1W
New Brass (Non Fulminate Primers)	No 17NF	.210	1923-	Replaces No 3W
New Brass (Non Fulminate Primers)	No 24NF	.210	1920-	Replaces No 2 1/2W
New Brass (Non Fulminate Primers)	No 35NF	.210	1923-	Replaces No 2 1/2W on Military and Metric cartridges
Nickle (Staynless) Primers	All sizes	various	1932 onwards	-

 

[bearhunter]

Evanguy, from memory, I'm seeing vintage 1920s or 30s brass cases, which haven't been fired???

I wouldn't fire them in their present state.

Not because they're dangerous, but because there is a chance the primers may be corrosive, and very likely the only reason those case necks haven't split is, they're loaded with "lead" bullets.

You can guarantee that the brass case has hardened over time.

I suspect the cartridge case is available from Graf/Starline/Bertram.

The box, with loaded cartridges, may have considerable value to cartridge collectors.

It's been my experience with such old brass that if the case neck hasn't split before firing, it "will" be split during the first firing.

I would pull those bullets, drive out the primers, then anneal the cases full length, before resizing/priming/charging/loading.

 

[jamesharrison]

If it were me, I'd pull those bullets, dump the powder, de-prime the cases, then anneal the brass, then re-prime the cases with the mildest small pistol primer you can find, likely Federal small pistol primers. The primers in there are most likely mercuric & corrosive and the ~130+ year old black powder that they are loaded with are not going to do anything good for the bore of your rifle.

 

[Evanguy]

Thanks for the info guys, I'm glad I found i could use a small pistol primer. I plan to reload them with black powder.

Suther, I know right. I love the look of them, that's why I went with these over the 25-21 ammo

I will pull them apart and anneal them before loading. I already was going to as I plan to run .251" bullets in them. I'll make a die so I can resize the top 1/2". I'm making my own chamber reamer. The barrel is a 251"

And I know these are valuable to collectors it took me a year to find these (without looking too hard). I paid 125 for the 16 of them. I would have loved to find some of the new brass but never could any. I did find some 25-21 and i will probably buy some of that for the majority of shooting but keep the 25-25 brass for limited shooting.

I have 14 Winchester and 2 U.M.C. they have different primers in them.

 

[bearhunter]

How to make 25-25 Stevens cases;


To make .25-25 Stevens cases, you can follow these steps:

• Use RCBS #16 and Lyman X12 shell holder for your brass.
  
  1
• Consider using 22 Hornet cases for conversion, as they are easier to acquire and work with.
  
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• Use a crimping seater to ensure proper seating of the bullet.
  
  1
• For reloading, you can use trailboss or 4198 smokeless powder for your loads.
  
  1
• Ensure to check the headstamp of your cases to confirm they are current production.
  
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  These steps will help you successfully convert and load .25-25 Stevens cases

 

[Evanguy]

Thanks for the heads up, I do have some 22 hornet brass.

I want the long case though, that's why I picked this round for this project. So a sort case isn't going to cut it for me other wise I would have went with 25-21 Stevens and bought new brass. Unless I use the 22 hornet cases for plinking and the 25-25 cases for stocking so I don't shoot the 25-25 as much and risk cracking them

The 22 hornet case is only 35mm long opposed to 60mm. The 25-21 is 52mm long.

I just wanted an absurdly long skinny case lol. The 6x70R will be my next project in a double opposed to the 25-25 in a single

 

[pmatuk]

the long skinny cases do intrigue ,the 28-30-120 Stevens is the one I chose
brass can be formed from other cases including the 6x70R case
did see on a different site how others have formed brass for the 28-30 stevens

 

[antiqueguy]

I think RMC makes .25-25 brass these are lathe turned.

 

[jamesharrison]

Beaks & Brass.

 

[Evanguy]

I think RMC makes .25-25 brass these are lathe turned.

Thanks I'll look into them

Beaks & Brass.

Thanks, I have never heard of these guys. I just messaged to see if they can get 25-25 brass.

Edit, Wow, fast response and very reasonable. If Bertram has them I'll have 20 of them coming on the Feb order. Now I have to think of other brass for different projects I may want.

 

[Suther]

You only ordered 20? That doesn't sound very GunNutz... lol

 

[Evanguy]

You only ordered 20? That doesn't sound very GunNutz... lol

Well the 20 empty brass will run me just over $160 and you can only order them in 20 round boxes. But I do see where you are coming from lol

 

[Suther]

OK that's fair lol

 

[FLHTCUI]

That is some ###y calibre you have there sir, look forward to the adventures with this combo.
JH, thanks for the Beaks and Brass tip, will have to look them up for a brass order for my 7x64B.
Gerald, thanks for your info on making some brass for this interesting calibre too, hope it assists someone else.
Tight Groups,
Rob

 

[bearhunter]

Well the 20 empty brass will run me just over $160 and you can only order them in 20 round boxes. But I do see where you are coming from lol

Order at least two boxes to save on shipping, and you can bet a year from now, they will be 50% more expensive.

 

[Evanguy]

Order at least two boxes to save on shipping, and you can bet a year from now, they will be 50% more expensive.

I agree, but the shipping is only $20 of the cost. The invoice is $152.25 so less than $160 actually. Once I have 20 brass and over 250 bullets I'm good and can move to the next project.

I have way too many projects 90% of the way I need more brass for, like my bolt action 12g converted to 577 Snider (10 brass) or my remington no6 converted to centerfire in 297/230 morris (14 brass), or my .276 Enfield bolt action (1 brass)

 

[pmatuk]

that 297/230 Morris is a quite intriguing looking case ,appears 22 hornet can be persuaded to make cases with some work